Dota & Web Dota Community

Defense of the Ancient => Web Dota => Topic started by: Lord of Dota on September 07, 2015, 02:05:35 PM



Title: Round 62F - Changes & Discussion
Post by: Lord of Dota on September 07, 2015, 02:05:35 PM
Hero
  • Obsidian Destroyer - Every spell casting has 20/30/40% chance to restore 10% of maximum mana pool
  • Ogre Magi - 10/20/30% chance for multi cast
  • Anti Mage - Mana burn based on 50/100/150% of attack damage & 40% spell resistance
  • Alchemist - 40% (from 35%) extra damage on creeping and chemical raged (lasts for 120 minutes instead of 45 minutes) when a creep is killed

Magic
  • Terror will not work against Agility heroes and zero return damage will now work on consecutive attacks
  • Terror mana cost increased from 200 to 400
  • Sunder and Sunder Health leave 45% minumum HP instead of 50%

Creep
  • Gold sharing from creep kill decreased from 50% to 20%

Item
  • Black King Bar - 20% chance to block spell and no mana needed, instead of 35% with 100 mana
  • Feedback Orb - Mana burn based on 250% of attack damage instead of 150%
  • Euls Scepter of Divinity - 500 Mana regen per cycle instead of 100 Mana regen
  • Euls Scepter of Divinity - recipe cost from 1300 to 3300
  • Demon Edge - from + 36 attack to + 48 attack
  • Demon Edge - cost from 1800 to 2700
  • Buriza-do Kyanon - from + 80 attack to + 100 attack
  • Divine Rapier - from + 175 attack to + 200 attack
  • (http://www.webdota.net/image/item/javelin.jpg) New item: Javelin, cost 1500, + 30 attack
  • (http://www.webdota.net/image/item/mkb.jpg) New item: Monkey King Bar (1 x Javelin, 1 x Demon Edge, 1 x recipe), + 80 attack with True Strike, not stackable, recipe cost 2000

Item popularity excluding portion
Code:
Demon Edge 415
Ironwood Branch 348
Ogre Axe 309
Belt of Giant Strength 261
Boots of Elvenskin 260
Mithril Hammer 231
Blade of Alacrity 230
Robe of the Magi 221
Sacred Relic 208
Broadsword 205
Blades of Attack 205
Claymore 197
Crystalys 191
Talisman of Evasion 186
Yasha 184
Sange 179
Eaglehorn 177
Divine Rapier 175
Buriza-do Kyanon 174
Quarterstaff 152
Staff of Wizardry 137
The Butterfly 134
Planeswalkers Cloak 121
Euls Scepter of Divinity 121
Sange and Yasha 120
Black King Bar 117
Plate Mail 108
Vitality Booster 90
Chain Mail 85
Ring of Health 64
Messerschmidts Reaver 62
Helm of Iron Will 52
Heart of Tarrasque 52
Aegis of the Immortal 49
Slippers of Agility 49
Circlet of Nobility 45
Mystic Staff 45
Hood of Defiance 39
Gauntlets of Ogre Strength 39
Point Booster 38
Void Stone 37
Cranium Basher 33
Energy Booster 32
Diffusal Blade 32
Sobi Mask 30
Soul Booster 29
Mjollnir 25
Witching Stave 24
Ring of Protection 22
Ring of Basilius 22
Perseverance 20
Gloves of Haste 18
Bloodstone 15
Mantle of Intelligence 13
Hand of Midas 12
Shiva's Guard 11

Below 10:
Aghanim's Scepter, Null Talisman, Stygian Desolator, Bracer, Wraith Band, Blade Mail, Mask of Death, Ring of Regeneration

Misc
  • Add Assist in Player Card
  • Show Assisted Kill for top kill list
  • DRR will be activated when there is assist
  • Fixed DRR bug not showing 0% in enemy list when there is zero kill
  • Fixed Butcher and Silencer streak bonus only happens at 9th streak kills
  • Fixed Pandaren uniqueness not working in consecutive attacks

True Strike: 50% attack damage cannot be missed. For example, a total of 100 attack damage points, enemy can only evades 50 points out of it (when the miss/evasion is triggered).

Next round is un-audited Fun Round, there will be daily Side shuffle includes clan-less players. Expect the round will be longer as lane HP will be doubled. Official round 63 will be arranged on Oct.


Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
Post by: zHaKkAs on September 07, 2015, 02:18:21 PM
Hero
  • Obsidian Destroyer
  • Warlock
  • Alchemist

Magic
  • Terror will not work against Agility heroes and no return damage will now work on consecutive attacks

Item
  • Black King Bar - 25% chance to block spell and no mana needed

Item popularity excluding portion
Code:
Demon Edge 415
Ironwood Branch 348
Ogre Axe 309
Belt of Giant Strength 261
Boots of Elvenskin 260
Mithril Hammer 231
Blade of Alacrity 230
Robe of the Magi 221
Sacred Relic 208
Broadsword 205
Blades of Attack 205
Claymore 197
Crystalys 191
Talisman of Evasion 186
Yasha 184
Sange 179
Eaglehorn 177
Divine Rapier 175
Buriza-do Kyanon 174
Quarterstaff 152
Staff of Wizardry 137
The Butterfly 134
Planeswalkers Cloak 121
Euls Scepter of Divinity 121
Sange and Yasha 120
Black King Bar 117
Plate Mail 108
Vitality Booster 90
Chain Mail 85
Ring of Health 64
Messerschmidts Reaver 62
Helm of Iron Will 52
Heart of Tarrasque 52
Aegis of the Immortal 49
Slippers of Agility 49
Circlet of Nobility 45
Mystic Staff 45
Hood of Defiance 39
Gauntlets of Ogre Strength 39
Point Booster 38
Void Stone 37
Cranium Basher 33
Energy Booster 32
Diffusal Blade 32
Sobi Mask 30
Soul Booster 29
Mjollnir 25
Witching Stave 24
Ring of Protection 22
Ring of Basilius 22
Perseverance 20
Gloves of Haste 18
Bloodstone 15
Mantle of Intelligence 13
Hand of Midas 12
Shiva's Guard 11

Below 10:
Aghanim's Scepter, Null Talisman, Stygian Desolator, Bracer, Wraith Band, Blade Mail, Mask of Death, Ring of Regeneration

Misc
  • DRR will be activated when there is assist
  • Fixed DRR bug not showing 0% in enemy list when there is zero kill
  • Fixed Butcher and Silencer streak bonus only happens at 9th streak kills
  • Fixed Pandaren uniqueness not working in consecutive attacks
Making BKB mana free is not a good idea.
As mana regn and fizzle sucks in Int and also when int is of full mana taking aN example of lvl 4 Int has 10,000 mana and he can cast at max 11 Death coils when there is no fizzle which is not possible in current system . Taking 20% DC as fizzle then int left with 9 death coils and out of which if 3-4 DC got blocked by bkb then he will left with 5-6 DC only so he hardly can kill STR ..
So if you are thinking of making bkb mana free then make mana regn for int 40% and no more fizzle of spells...Thanks

And ya kindly change warlock and Alchemist .
Obsidian  is good and I don't think he need a change instead kindly change SA because I feel he has been nerfed alot ...


Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
Post by: Street Man on September 07, 2015, 02:20:13 PM
If these changes r confirmed , I won't play int any more
So sad for int  ??? ???
Most ppl will try agi  :D :D


Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
Post by: HaTE on September 07, 2015, 02:46:36 PM
Hold on to your panties people. LOD said:
Quote
Next round is un-audited Fun Round, there will be daily Side shuffle includes clan-less players. Official round 63 will be arranged on Oct.
I strongly welcome the BKB change. Now it's on same level with Butterfly.

And YES Obsidian's change (if it is what I think it is) is needed to bring him to the same tier / level as Ogre Magi and Death Prophet.

Please LOD, can you explain what changes in OD, Warlock and Alchemist we're going to see?

Also, kindly:
  • Give Ogre Magi MultiCast on healing since he is unable to use his uniqueness (unlike other INT heroes) for Reaper Scythe.
  • Give Fizzled spells are refund. 60% on the same fizzle rates as previous round or improve the fizzle rate (i.e. it should fizzle less as you level up) and fizzle refund mana value to 50%. Also, since BKB need 0 mana to block spells next round, it makes more sense if Fizzled spells start refunding mana.

I mean this is a "Testing" round so why not try above mentioned changes? Also there are few notable changes mentioned here ( http://forum.dotahomer.com/index.php?topic=4262.0 )


Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
Post by: killua on September 07, 2015, 02:53:46 PM
  • Terror will not work against Agility heroes and no return damage will now work on consecutive attacks

Hi LOD,

Decreasing the mana of Terror by from 500 to 200 makes the AGI heroes killing themselves.
Now, we are solving it by making Terror only works definitely against INT  types? This is totally not good at all.

We need to come up a better balancing solution. Right now, we can't kill both STR and INT with huge HP and Mana even with late game items. Agi heroes are time bound. They cannot compete well because of time controlled laning system. Before we have our items, lanes are already about to close. And we cannot approximate how much effort we need because of the possibility of all lanes being closed already. If it's fixed, then we can plan ahead how to build our heroes.

The only hero type that AGI can kill is AGI as well. Terror is fine as long as the mana requirement is average (400-500). So that we cannot spam it against AGI. If this spell will no longer work against AGI, it's more totally imbalance. We cannot kill all types of heroes already!

STR heroes can kill all types.
INT heroes can do the same.
AGI is totally left behind!


Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
Post by: zinhtet on September 07, 2015, 02:57:57 PM
So is the new terror totally meant for intl? Will consecutive attack with terror work? How about SF? Can reduce agi's armor? Any plan to weak str hero? I'd like to see agi with niax uniqueness  ;D


Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
Post by: torque on September 07, 2015, 03:11:45 PM
Please check the ranking data here - > http://forum.dotahomer.com/index.php?topic=4219.msg80530#msg80530 (http://forum.dotahomer.com/index.php?topic=4219.msg80530#msg80530) :)

Fun round! Wohoooo!!


Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
Post by: HaTE on September 07, 2015, 04:10:20 PM
I have a fun idea for Terror:
  • Terror on INT: 3/6/10% Damage increased on hit based on enemy's "CURRENT" mana (note, I mentioned MANA not INT).
  • Terror on STR: 3/6/10% Damage increased on hit based on enemy's "CURRENT" HP (note, I mentioned HP not STR).
  • Terror on AGI: no effect. OR 5/10/15% Armor Reduction on hit

Notes:
- Above colored values can be changed because AGIs have hell lots of turns but then again, they don't have that much mana (which they can increase if they want to :D).
- Above terror changes will make AGI viable late game when INTs have hell lot of mana and STRs have hell lot of hp.
- Idea behind above terror changes is to boost AGI class to compete with already strong STR and already STRONGER INT classes.


*EDIT* Changed the Terror on AGI section*.


Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
Post by: Lord of Dota on September 07, 2015, 04:13:38 PM
  • Terror will not work against Agility heroes and no return damage will now work on consecutive attacks

Hi LOD,

Decreasing the mana of Terror by from 500 to 200 makes the AGI heroes killing themselves.
Now, we are solving it by making Terror only works definitely against INT  types? This is totally not good at all.

We need to come up a better balancing solution. Right now, we can't kill both STR and INT with huge HP and Mana even with late game items. Agi heroes are time bound. They cannot compete well because of time controlled laning system. Before we have our items, lanes are already about to close. And we cannot approximate how much effort we need because of the possibility of all lanes being closed already. If it's fixed, then we can plan ahead how to build our heroes.

The only hero type that AGI can kill is AGI as well. Terror is fine as long as the mana requirement is average (400-500). So that we cannot spam it against AGI. If this spell will no longer work against AGI, it's more totally imbalance. We cannot kill all types of heroes already!

STR heroes can kill all types.
INT heroes can do the same.
AGI is totally left behind!

OD will likely to be implemented tier level uniqueness as suggested here.

The feedback I received from here, is that, we try, try not to nerf any class but improve the weak side.

I have some questions for the floor,

  • If everyone agree that STR and INT can kill all types, what kind of improvement would you see toward a Class (Agility), not specified hero?
  • Agility heroes have better item efficiency at early start, 20% magic resistance by nature and faster turns, if AGI cannot kill, can they die easily?

Sometimes I feel bad that seems like I have made Agility heroes the man behind or a must have hero in Clan build.


Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
Post by: -19- on September 07, 2015, 04:16:01 PM
LOD i think Terror not working with AGI is kinda OP, atleast give it percentage effectiveness per level 100% / 90% / 80% / 70% and 60%. with 60 CAP since Armor on Agi are higher compared to INT and STR.


Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
Post by: HaTE on September 07, 2015, 04:20:45 PM
    I have some questions for the floor,

    • If everyone agree that STR and INT can kill all types, what kind of improvement would you see toward a Class (Agility), not specified hero?
    • Agility heroes have better item efficiency at early start, 20% magic resistance by nature and faster turns, if AGI cannot kill, can they die easily?

    Sometimes I feel bad that seems like I have made Agility heroes the man behind or a must have hero in Clan build.


    Does this reply your questions?
    I have a fun idea for Terror:
    • Terror on INT: 3/6/10% Damage increased on hit based on enemy's "CURRENT" mana (note, I mentioned MANA not INT).
    • Terror on STR: 3/6/10% Damage increased on hit based on enemy's "CURRENT" HP (note, I mentioned HP not STR).
    • Terror on AGI: no effect.**EDIT** OR AGI vs AGI with Terror can ignore 5/10/15%
    Armor[/list]

    Notes:
    - Above colored values can be changed because AGIs have hell lots of turns but then again, they don't have that much mana (which they can increase if they want to :D).
    - Above terror changes will make AGI viable late game when INTs have hell lot of mana and STRs have hell lot of hp.
    - Idea behind above terror changes is to boost AGI class to compete with already strong STR and already STRONGER INT classes.

    Oh and while we're showing some love to AGI class, I want to propose a change that I suggested LONG LONG LONG time ago:
    i.e. Make the DR drop-able ONLY after at-least 5 kills. It hurts so bad when players make DR only to find out that before using the ITEM, it was dropped on first death.


    Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
    Post by: StTomato on September 07, 2015, 04:29:00 PM
    Im more interested on these: (removed non-recipe item from list)

    Yasha   184   (NOTE 1)
    Sange   179   (NOTE 1)
    Divine Rapier   175   (NOTE 2)
    Buriza-do Kyanon   174   (NOTE 2)
    The Butterfly   134  (NOTE 3)
    Euls Scepter of Divinity   121  (NOTE 1)
    Sange and Yasha   120  (NOTE 1)
    Black King Bar   117  (NOTE 3)
    Heart of Tarrasque   52  
    Aegis of the Immortal   49
    Hood of Defiance   39  (NOTE 4)
    Cranium Basher   33
    Diffusal Blade   32
    Soul Booster   29
    Mjollnir   25
    Witching Stave   24
    Ring of Basilius   22
    Perseverance   20
    Bloodstone   15
    Hand of Midas   12
    Shiva's Guard   11
    Aghanim's Scepter   <10  (NOTE 5)
    Null Talisman  <10  (NOTE 1)
    Stygian Desolator  <10  (NOTE 6)
    Bracer  <10  (NOTE 1)
    Wraith Band  <10  (NOTE 1)
    Blade Mail  <10  (NOTE 7)

    Note 1: Massive usage of SnY and poor usage of basic items. As I suggested,
    Bracer, Band, Null, should have their recipe @ 1000g but the stat they give should be better @ 12 main 3 subs
    This shall improve usage of the 3 basic items at beginning

    Note 2: AGI are lack of choices I bet. DR and Burize are their choices. Which I have called for a buff on other ATTACK items, to help AGI.

    Note 3: Butterfly and BKB, heavy usage. I cant tell you how important it is, to make evasion max @20%, while BKB trigger at 20%. I cant, if you dont try it. I know everyone will yell for NO NO NO NO NO NO NO x 100 times. I hate it when LOL REMOVED dodge % from their game entirely. But it ends up to be the right move. When you attack, you want to have a % chance on crit, which is already LUCK based, and yet you need another LUCK for enemy not to DODGE it. Too much luck... Same goes for spells and BKB. Spell damage should be reworked, I am serious about this.

    Note 4: This, I wasnt expecting. Wow, so few player uses HoD, no wonder INT has their spells fly around like mad =/ I reduced my death a lot this round when I get 2 HoD... Which, I think should NOT be happening. Stacking magic resistance like that and avoided a lot of death, I really cant tell you how broken it is. Still, you people will yell NO on it. Sometime I just want to quit this forum and game for good.

    Note 5: I really love the idea someone suggested Aghanim to be reworked, making it usable for all 3 classes. Using the Ogre Axe those items, and merge with Point Booster, just like the new Dota, improve all 3 classes abilities. This is too good to be missed out. But I am dont agree with that person's suggestion on the effects.

    Note 6: Who need Deso when AGI can have 200 mana Terror? XD saw this coming!

    Note 7: Oh well, LoD must save Blademail lol. Its so pity xD


    Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
    Post by: -19- on September 07, 2015, 04:29:14 PM

    Agility heroes have better item efficiency at early start, 20% magic resistance by nature and faster turns, if AGI cannot kill, can they die easily?



    The item efficiency are no longer there because of the FORCE sharing of gold creeps. For start Agi need to pump Damage in order to Level fast and kill fast.
    Compared to INT and STR they buy stuffs that are beneficial to both Offense and defense.

    STR pump STR items for enrage which gives them more HP for survival
    INT pump INT for Higher Magic damage and the same time giving them more Mana shield Blockage and Higher Heal
    While AGI pump Damage, Just Damage and even have the Chance to Drop (Divine Rapier) which will just waste more GOLD.

    If force sharing is now disable then AGI will have the benefits of items since AGI can now purchase more item for their offense and defense items.


    Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
    Post by: StTomato on September 07, 2015, 04:30:28 PM
    LOD i think Terror not working with AGI is kinda OP, atleast give it percentage effectiveness per level 100% / 90% / 80% / 70% and 60%. with 60 CAP since Armor on Agi are higher compared to INT and STR.

    said this before, Terror will 200 mana should NOT be doing 100% armor reduction. It should be a lower %, and this shall increase the need for Deso. but no one give a fxxk about what I say anyway =P


    Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
    Post by: StTomato on September 07, 2015, 04:31:09 PM
      I have some questions for the floor,

      • If everyone agree that STR and INT can kill all types, what kind of improvement would you see toward a Class (Agility), not specified hero?
      • Agility heroes have better item efficiency at early start, 20% magic resistance by nature and faster turns, if AGI cannot kill, can they die easily?

      Sometimes I feel bad that seems like I have made Agility heroes the man behind or a must have hero in Clan build.


      Does this reply your questions?
      I have a fun idea for Terror:
      • Terror on INT: 3/6/10% Damage increased on hit based on enemy's "CURRENT" mana (note, I mentioned MANA not INT).
      • Terror on STR: 3/6/10% Damage increased on hit based on enemy's "CURRENT" HP (note, I mentioned HP not STR).
      • Terror on AGI: no effect.**EDIT** OR AGI vs AGI with Terror can ignore 5/10/15%
      Armor[/list]

      Notes:
      - Above colored values can be changed because AGIs have hell lots of turns but then again, they don't have that much mana (which they can increase if they want to :D).
      - Above terror changes will make AGI viable late game when INTs have hell lot of mana and STRs have hell lot of hp.
      - Idea behind above terror changes is to boost AGI class to compete with already strong STR and already STRONGER INT classes.

      Oh and while we're showing some love to AGI class, I want to propose a change that I suggested LONG LONG LONG time ago:
      i.e. Make the DR drop-able ONLY after at-least 5 kills. It hurts so bad when players make DR only to find out that before using the ITEM, it was dropped on first death.

      to hell DR. remove that shit lol~


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zHaKkAs on September 07, 2015, 04:33:35 PM
      • Terror will not work against Agility heroes and no return damage will now work on consecutive attacks

      Hi LOD,

      Decreasing the mana of Terror by from 500 to 200 makes the AGI heroes killing themselves.
      Now, we are solving it by making Terror only works definitely against INT  types? This is totally not good at all.

      We need to come up a better balancing solution. Right now, we can't kill both STR and INT with huge HP and Mana even with late game items. Agi heroes are time bound. They cannot compete well because of time controlled laning system. Before we have our items, lanes are already about to close. And we cannot approximate how much effort we need because of the possibility of all lanes being closed already. If it's fixed, then we can plan ahead how to build our heroes.

      The only hero type that AGI can kill is AGI as well. Terror is fine as long as the mana requirement is average (400-500). So that we cannot spam it against AGI. If this spell will no longer work against AGI, it's more totally imbalance. We cannot kill all types of heroes already!

      STR heroes can kill all types.
      INT heroes can do the same.
      AGI is totally left behind!

      OD will likely to be implemented tier level uniqueness as suggested here.

      The feedback I received from here, is that, we try, try not to nerf any class but improve the weak side.

      I have some questions for the floor,

      • If everyone agree that STR and INT can kill all types, what kind of improvement would you see toward a Class (Agility), not specified hero?
      • Agility heroes have better item efficiency at early start, 20% magic resistance by nature and faster turns, if AGI cannot kill, can they die easily?

      Sometimes I feel bad that seems like I have made Agility heroes the man behind or a must have hero in Clan build.

      As I already suggested LOD make Agility heroes agile a bit by giving them evasion by increasing Agility like every 10agi giving 1% evasion  maxed to 30 like this they have defense against str/agi right from the start . And int defense you already given to agi's .Also this will help in giving agi's  extra for items because they don't need to buy butterfly anymore and they can now buy more items making them more stinger. .
      Other you can do is removing orb effect of MJ because due to this agi's cannt take other orbs . Make MJ limit to one for one player and remove lighting orb and give MJ 5 damage for 1 agi point...
      Thanks..


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 07, 2015, 04:37:02 PM
      • Terror will not work against Agility heroes and no return damage will now work on consecutive attacks

      Hi LOD,

      Decreasing the mana of Terror by from 500 to 200 makes the AGI heroes killing themselves.
      Now, we are solving it by making Terror only works definitely against INT  types? This is totally not good at all.

      We need to come up a better balancing solution. Right now, we can't kill both STR and INT with huge HP and Mana even with late game items. Agi heroes are time bound. They cannot compete well because of time controlled laning system. Before we have our items, lanes are already about to close. And we cannot approximate how much effort we need because of the possibility of all lanes being closed already. If it's fixed, then we can plan ahead how to build our heroes.

      The only hero type that AGI can kill is AGI as well. Terror is fine as long as the mana requirement is average (400-500). So that we cannot spam it against AGI. If this spell will no longer work against AGI, it's more totally imbalance. We cannot kill all types of heroes already!

      STR heroes can kill all types.
      INT heroes can do the same.
      AGI is totally left behind!

      OD will likely to be implemented tier level uniqueness as suggested here.

      The feedback I received from here, is that, we try, try not to nerf any class but improve the weak side.

      I have some questions for the floor,

      • If everyone agree that STR and INT can kill all types, what kind of improvement would you see toward a Class (Agility), not specified hero?
      • Agility heroes have better item efficiency at early start, 20% magic resistance by nature and faster turns, if AGI cannot kill, can they die easily?

      Sometimes I feel bad that seems like I have made Agility heroes the man behind or a must have hero in Clan build.

      As I already suggested LOD make Agility heroes agile a bit by giving them evasion by increasing Agility like every 10agi giving 1% evasion  maxed to 30 like this they have defense against str/agi right from the start . And int defense you already given to agi's .Also this will help in giving agi's  extra for items because they don't need to buy butterfly anymore and they can now buy more items making them more stinger. .
      Other you can do is removing orb effect of MJ because due to this agi's cannt take other orbs . Make MJ limit to one for one player and remove lighting orb and give MJ 5 damage for 1 agi point...
      Thanks..

      i didnt agree with x AGI give x Evasion for 2 reasons:
      1. complicated math
      2. OP evasion


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zinhtet on September 07, 2015, 04:49:37 PM
      How about changing terror to cause dmg base on agi points instead of armor reduction. (e.g  2/3/4 dmg based on agi point)
      Agi have to balance hp,armor and dmg and can't go one way like str and intl do. Above changes might solve the problem of agi.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: lonelykidz on September 07, 2015, 04:49:55 PM
      • Terror will not work against Agility heroes and no return damage will now work on consecutive attacks

      Hi LOD,

      Decreasing the mana of Terror by from 500 to 200 makes the AGI heroes killing themselves.
      Now, we are solving it by making Terror only works definitely against INT  types? This is totally not good at all.

      We need to come up a better balancing solution. Right now, we can't kill both STR and INT with huge HP and Mana even with late game items. Agi heroes are time bound. They cannot compete well because of time controlled laning system. Before we have our items, lanes are already about to close. And we cannot approximate how much effort we need because of the possibility of all lanes being closed already. If it's fixed, then we can plan ahead how to build our heroes.

      The only hero type that AGI can kill is AGI as well. Terror is fine as long as the mana requirement is average (400-500). So that we cannot spam it against AGI. If this spell will no longer work against AGI, it's more totally imbalance. We cannot kill all types of heroes already!

      STR heroes can kill all types.
      INT heroes can do the same.
      AGI is totally left behind!

      You are wrong, agi hero can kill int hero in 2 hit with terror if not evaded by butterfly at late game if you are AM or 3 hit if you are other agi hero type. At level 4 with mjilnor, if you are AM you can break any mana shield with one hit terror. If you are any other agi hero, just use 2 consecutive hit with terror the mana shield will be gone.
      Generally at level 4 int hero mana is around 10-11k. Agi hero damage with terror will be around 900-1200. 2 hit = 2400 dmg, will burn around 9600 mana. Thus the 3rd hit the mana shield will not working anymore.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: killua on September 07, 2015, 04:51:13 PM
      AGI vs STR/INT - We need to have an item or "ability enhancement" that will work individually, only against STR or INT types but not BOTH. Any idea to increase the damage output directly  for agi heroes just to catch up on STR's high HP and INT's MP capability @ end game will be imbalance.

      The only issue when we attack STR/INT at late game is that they already have huge HP/MP and at the same time, they have max evasion. Therefore, I suggest that Terror should also have the chance to disable (or lower)  the Evasion rate starting @ hero level 5 (or 6 perhaps?).


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: torque on September 07, 2015, 05:00:22 PM
      OD will likely to be implemented tier level uniqueness as suggested here.

      The feedback I received from here, is that, we try, try not to nerf any class but improve the weak side.

      I have some questions for the floor,

      • If everyone agree that STR and INT can kill all types, what kind of improvement would you see toward a Class (Agility), not specified hero?
      • Agility heroes have better item efficiency at early start, 20% magic resistance by nature and faster turns, if AGI cannot kill, can they die easily?

      Sometimes I feel bad that seems like I have made Agility heroes the man behind or a must have hero in Clan build.


      AGILITY class is just tad too dependent on a lot of things in this game and other class rely so much on it for creeps.

      Item - damage buff, max armor, hp buff, magic def, evasion

      Compared to STR, no need for armor and no need for items that give high physical damage

      Compared to INT, primary source of damage is mana, so buffing only primary stat to boost it, much much easier. At the same time, buff manashield for def.

      Training - 3 books: backstab, dark talisman, chain helmet

      Compared to STR, only 2, beast and a few dark talisman(not even a must).

      Compared to INT, only 2, mantle and dark talisman.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: lonelykidz on September 07, 2015, 05:46:22 PM
      Dear LoD,

      If DR damage is increased, burize should increase it's damage as well.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Hennrick on September 07, 2015, 05:53:54 PM
      Based on the feedbacks here those who are abusing the late game capabilities of int heroes doesnt want these changes to be implemented since they will be balanced with Agility heroes.

      Let's give it a try guys.

      I agree with Xiang, Agility heroes can break mana shield with good items and terror.

      @sttomato, somehow i agree with u changing it to lower %.

      Thank you LOD, agility heroes has been highlighted and reworked after years. Youve been working ahrd to improve the classes not to nerf them.

      For the coming rounds every heroes here in WD is exceptional and can counter each other :D





      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 07, 2015, 06:10:54 PM
      Since it's going to be a fun round, I would also be bold to request use of Multiple (yes multies) account this round to test different changes.

      To ensure that my multi accounts are not helping me abuse the system or gaining unfair advantage over others, I shall make multiple accounts and notify LOD (or any designated moderator) about my created accounts so they can monitor and ban me if I'm using multiple accounts to help myself (i.e. assisting my own self to secure a kill etc.).

      My sole reason to request use of multi accounts this round is to make sure I can check / test offered changes (i.e. Centaur, Al-Chemist and Obsidian Destroyer).


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: D.Pro on September 07, 2015, 06:17:24 PM
      Hold on to your panties people. LOD said:
      Quote
      Next round is un-audited Fun Round, there will be daily Side shuffle includes clan-less players. Official round 63 will be arranged on Oct.
      I strongly welcome the BKB change. Now it's on same level with Butterfly.

      And YES Obsidian's change (if it is what I think it is) is needed to bring him to the same tier / level as Ogre Magi and Death Prophet.

      Please LOD, can you explain what changes in OD, Warlock and Alchemist we're going to see?

      Also, kindly:
      • Give Ogre Magi MultiCast on healing since he is unable to use his uniqueness (unlike other INT heroes) for Reaper Scythe.
      • Give Fizzled spells are refund. 60% on the same fizzle rates as previous round or improve the fizzle rate (i.e. it should fizzle less as you level up) and fizzle refund mana value to 50%. Also, since BKB need 0 mana to block spells next round, it makes more sense if Fizzled spells start refunding mana.

      I mean this is a "Testing" round so why not try above mentioned changes? Also there are few notable changes mentioned here ( http://forum.dotahomer.com/index.php?topic=4262.0 )
      Bkb match butter...  what a stupid way to BALANCE... HaTE has proven his hate for a particular class and trying every hook n crook to make them dead


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: 0rgaZm on September 07, 2015, 06:36:20 PM
      Can i ask what does un-audited round means? Is multi legal? Or is this a trap to see who really are multi gamers here :-D


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 07, 2015, 06:37:47 PM
      Can i ask what does un-audited round means? Is multi legal? Or is this a trap to see who really are multi gamers here :-D
      it means, no record will be kept in http://www.webdota.net/ranking.php


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 07, 2015, 06:39:32 PM
      • Terror will not work against Agility heroes and no return damage will now work on consecutive attacks

      Hi LOD,

      Decreasing the mana of Terror by from 500 to 200 makes the AGI heroes killing themselves.
      Now, we are solving it by making Terror only works definitely against INT  types? This is totally not good at all.

      We need to come up a better balancing solution. Right now, we can't kill both STR and INT with huge HP and Mana even with late game items. Agi heroes are time bound. They cannot compete well because of time controlled laning system. Before we have our items, lanes are already about to close. And we cannot approximate how much effort we need because of the possibility of all lanes being closed already. If it's fixed, then we can plan ahead how to build our heroes.

      The only hero type that AGI can kill is AGI as well. Terror is fine as long as the mana requirement is average (400-500). So that we cannot spam it against AGI. If this spell will no longer work against AGI, it's more totally imbalance. We cannot kill all types of heroes already!

      STR heroes can kill all types.
      INT heroes can do the same.
      AGI is totally left behind!

      OD will likely to be implemented tier level uniqueness as suggested here.

      The feedback I received from here, is that, we try, try not to nerf any class but improve the weak side.

      I have some questions for the floor,

      • If everyone agree that STR and INT can kill all types, what kind of improvement would you see toward a Class (Agility), not specified hero?
      • Agility heroes have better item efficiency at early start, 20% magic resistance by nature and faster turns, if AGI cannot kill, can they die easily?

      Sometimes I feel bad that seems like I have made Agility heroes the man behind or a must have hero in Clan build.

      Part C
      6. That is my creep
      Str and Int hero is now able to creep on their own. Creeps are no more shared among clan members.
      For str hero, str stat x 10 attack to creep / str stat reduce 1.5 x attack from creep
      For int hero, int stat x 10 attack to creep / int stat reduce 1.5 x attack from creep
      For agi hero, attack x 2 attack to creep / armor reduce 1.5 x attack from creep

      7. Midas 2.0
      Midas 5000 gold - now instantly kill a creep below 65% give the user 20% gold bonus. (does not effect gold sharing)
      Recipe 3500/top > Glove of haste 1500/center
      Glove of haste 1500 gold/center - instantly kill a creep below 40%


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 07, 2015, 06:40:32 PM
      Still hoping to see game balance

      Magic
      Sunder spell leaves target with minimum 30% of max hp instead of 50%
      Sunder Health spell that only available to Lina Inverse and Holy Knight leaves target with minimum 40% of max hp instead of 50%
      Reaper's Scythe - Deals 0.25 damage per health point missing, increase success rate by 10%, require 2000 mana
      Terror up to 300 Mana, work up to 2 consecutive attacks. Reduce 100/85/70% target armor



      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: shenron on September 07, 2015, 06:41:32 PM
      its really hard to use agi nowadays  :'( :'( :'(


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Hennrick on September 07, 2015, 06:43:25 PM
      its really hard to use agi nowadays  :'( :'( :'(

      dont worry, LOD is working on it.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: avrhil on September 07, 2015, 06:45:06 PM
      Dear LOD,

      Since BKB now works like butter, is it okay if we  will increase its price? if not, at least lower the %?


      Thank You!


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: 0rgaZm on September 07, 2015, 06:52:11 PM
      Im ok with any game balance LOD will do with the game, so as long as multies will be gone or reduce their population..this is game is great especially if these multi players are dead..lol..i hope someday we'll find ways to make these multies life harder..


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 07, 2015, 07:06:39 PM
      Bkb match butter...  what a stupid way to BALANCE... HaTE has proven his hate for a particular class and trying every hook n crook to make them dead
      Oh I knew you would ignore everyone's post and comment directly on mine :D. Personal issues? Get tissues ;D.

      The difference between your (and your special friends) suggestions and my suggestions is that you are suggesting in order to take advantage of a particular class / hero next round but I'm suggesting to provide "every" player of webdota an equal advantage / disadvantage (i.e. BALANCE).

      You don't (and probably will never) seem to understand the relation between BKB and Butterfly. Here let me break it down for you because I know you have "special" needs ;D.


      BKB Features
         
      BUTTERFLY Features
      Provides Defense vs INT (i.e. only 1 class)
         
      Provides Defense vs AGI AND STR (i.e. 2 classes)
      Needs Mana to block Damage
         
      Needs NOTHING to block Damage
      In any given case, wastes only "1" turn & mana of attacker
         
      Can waste from 1 to 20 turns + Mana (if enrage / terror used) at once
      Can be disabled easily by burning mana
         
      Can NEVER be disabled


      It won't surprise me if even now you can't see the "obvious" advantages available to INT class with regard to "defensive items" ;D. If you still believe that BKB and Butterfly shouldn't be matched then you're biased and (as stated above) want to propose changes that benefit yourself and your group of friends only. Which further proves that you have zero concern about balance, you just want the changes for yourself  ::) ::).

      Dear LOD,

      Since BKB now works like butter, is it okay if we  will increase its price? if not, at least lower the %?


      Thank You!
      Sis, I know your concern but BKB's price can be "adjusted" (by making it slightly expensive than before) but not matched with Butterfly. Let me clarify that the comparison here is not between items, it the comparison between the "Defensive" attributes both items offer (i.e. Block spell vs Evasion).

      Keeping that in view, butterfly only provides 15% evasion (on higher cost) but you can get 20% evasion on MUCH cheaper cost. Hope you understand my point.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zHaKkAs on September 07, 2015, 07:56:00 PM
      Hero
      • Obsidian Destroyer
      • Warlock
      • Alchemist

      Magic
      • Terror will not work against Agility heroes and no return damage will now work on consecutive attacks

      Item
      • Black King Bar - 25% chance to block spell and no mana needed
      • Increase Demon Edge from + 36 attack to + 48 attack
      • Increase cost for Demon Edge from 1800 to 2700
      • Increase Divine Rapier from + 175 attack to + 200 attack
      • Increase Buriza-do Kyanon from + 80 attack to + 100 attack
      • (http://www.webdota.net/image/item/javelin.jpg) New item: Javelin, cost 1500, + 30 attack
      • (http://www.webdota.net/image/item/mkb.jpg) New item: Monkey King Bar (1 x Javelin, 1 x Demon Edge, 1 x recipe), 50% of attack damage cannot be missed, not stackable

      Item popularity excluding portion
      Code:
      Demon Edge 415
      Ironwood Branch 348
      Ogre Axe 309
      Belt of Giant Strength 261
      Boots of Elvenskin 260
      Mithril Hammer 231
      Blade of Alacrity 230
      Robe of the Magi 221
      Sacred Relic 208
      Broadsword 205
      Blades of Attack 205
      Claymore 197
      Crystalys 191
      Talisman of Evasion 186
      Yasha 184
      Sange 179
      Eaglehorn 177
      Divine Rapier 175
      Buriza-do Kyanon 174
      Quarterstaff 152
      Staff of Wizardry 137
      The Butterfly 134
      Planeswalkers Cloak 121
      Euls Scepter of Divinity 121
      Sange and Yasha 120
      Black King Bar 117
      Plate Mail 108
      Vitality Booster 90
      Chain Mail 85
      Ring of Health 64
      Messerschmidts Reaver 62
      Helm of Iron Will 52
      Heart of Tarrasque 52
      Aegis of the Immortal 49
      Slippers of Agility 49
      Circlet of Nobility 45
      Mystic Staff 45
      Hood of Defiance 39
      Gauntlets of Ogre Strength 39
      Point Booster 38
      Void Stone 37
      Cranium Basher 33
      Energy Booster 32
      Diffusal Blade 32
      Sobi Mask 30
      Soul Booster 29
      Mjollnir 25
      Witching Stave 24
      Ring of Protection 22
      Ring of Basilius 22
      Perseverance 20
      Gloves of Haste 18
      Bloodstone 15
      Mantle of Intelligence 13
      Hand of Midas 12
      Shiva's Guard 11

      Below 10:
      Aghanim's Scepter, Null Talisman, Stygian Desolator, Bracer, Wraith Band, Blade Mail, Mask of Death, Ring of Regeneration

      Misc
      • Add Assist in Player Card
      • Show Assisted Kill for top kill list
      • DRR will be activated when there is assist
      • Fixed DRR bug not showing 0% in enemy list when there is zero kill
      • Fixed Butcher and Silencer streak bonus only happens at 9th streak kills
      • Fixed Pandaren uniqueness not working in consecutive attacks

      Next round is un-audited Fun Round, there will be daily Side shuffle includes clan-less players. Official round 63 will be arranged on Oct.
      LOD kindly explain this Monkey King Bar, 50% of attack damage cannot be missed, not stackable ???
      What's the meaning if 50% of attack damage cannot be missed..is it like I have 100 damage then even if butter block my attack the enemy will get 50 damage ???
      Or agi's having this have 50% chance that a attack is not blocked by Butter ???
      And also LOD since bkb need no mana for block that means 25% of int's turns are wasted for sure and so is their mana and also more than 25% mana wasted in fizzles so it's not fair that int will have to kill someone in 50% mana ... so kindly remove fizzles fir spell like gush DC .. thanks..


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: shenron on September 07, 2015, 08:23:09 PM
      Hero
      • Obsidian Destroyer
      • Warlock
      • Alchemist

      Magic
      • Terror will not work against Agility heroes and no return damage will now work on consecutive attacks

      Item
      • Black King Bar - 25% chance to block spell and no mana needed
      • Increase Demon Edge from + 36 attack to + 48 attack
      • Increase cost for Demon Edge from 1800 to 2700
      • Increase Divine Rapier from + 175 attack to + 200 attack
      • Increase Buriza-do Kyanon from + 80 attack to + 100 attack
      • (http://www.webdota.net/image/item/javelin.jpg) New item: Javelin, cost 1500, + 30 attack
      • (http://www.webdota.net/image/item/mkb.jpg) New item: Monkey King Bar (1 x Javelin, 1 x Demon Edge, 1 x recipe), 50% of attack damage cannot be missed, not stackable

      Item popularity excluding portion
      Code:
      Demon Edge 415
      Ironwood Branch 348
      Ogre Axe 309
      Belt of Giant Strength 261
      Boots of Elvenskin 260
      Mithril Hammer 231
      Blade of Alacrity 230
      Robe of the Magi 221
      Sacred Relic 208
      Broadsword 205
      Blades of Attack 205
      Claymore 197
      Crystalys 191
      Talisman of Evasion 186
      Yasha 184
      Sange 179
      Eaglehorn 177
      Divine Rapier 175
      Buriza-do Kyanon 174
      Quarterstaff 152
      Staff of Wizardry 137
      The Butterfly 134
      Planeswalkers Cloak 121
      Euls Scepter of Divinity 121
      Sange and Yasha 120
      Black King Bar 117
      Plate Mail 108
      Vitality Booster 90
      Chain Mail 85
      Ring of Health 64
      Messerschmidts Reaver 62
      Helm of Iron Will 52
      Heart of Tarrasque 52
      Aegis of the Immortal 49
      Slippers of Agility 49
      Circlet of Nobility 45
      Mystic Staff 45
      Hood of Defiance 39
      Gauntlets of Ogre Strength 39
      Point Booster 38
      Void Stone 37
      Cranium Basher 33
      Energy Booster 32
      Diffusal Blade 32
      Sobi Mask 30
      Soul Booster 29
      Mjollnir 25
      Witching Stave 24
      Ring of Protection 22
      Ring of Basilius 22
      Perseverance 20
      Gloves of Haste 18
      Bloodstone 15
      Mantle of Intelligence 13
      Hand of Midas 12
      Shiva's Guard 11

      Below 10:
      Aghanim's Scepter, Null Talisman, Stygian Desolator, Bracer, Wraith Band, Blade Mail, Mask of Death, Ring of Regeneration

      Misc
      • Add Assist in Player Card
      • Show Assisted Kill for top kill list
      • DRR will be activated when there is assist
      • Fixed DRR bug not showing 0% in enemy list when there is zero kill
      • Fixed Butcher and Silencer streak bonus only happens at 9th streak kills
      • Fixed Pandaren uniqueness not working in consecutive attacks

      Next round is un-audited Fun Round, there will be daily Side shuffle includes clan-less players. Official round 63 will be arranged on Oct.
      LOD kindly explain this Monkey King Bar, 50% of attack damage cannot be missed, not stackable ???
      What's the meaning if 50% of attack damage cannot be missed..is it like I have 100 damage then even if butter block my attack the enemy will get 50 damage ???
      Or agi's having this have 50% chance that a attack is not blocked by Butter ???
      And also LOD since bkb need no mana for block that means 25% of int's turns are wasted for sure and so is their mana and also more than 25% mana wasted in fizzles so it's not fair that int will have to kill someone in 50% mana ... so kindly remove fizzles fir spell like gush DC .. thanks..

      it could be 50% chance that your attack will not miss/block by butterfly or any evasion item


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zinhtet on September 07, 2015, 08:37:57 PM
      Non drop DR just for fun round pls ;D


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: avrhil on September 07, 2015, 09:57:59 PM
      I Do. That's why I am asking if we can increase the price of bkb. :) well, not as much as the price of BF since BF gives 30 agi aside from evasion. or maybe lower the % of evasion for BKB. 25% evasion for its price is a bit high.
      Thanks.

      Bkb match butter...  what a stupid way to BALANCE... HaTE has proven his hate for a particular class and trying every hook n crook to make them dead
      Oh I knew you would ignore everyone's post and comment directly on mine :D. Personal issues? Get tissues ;D.

      The difference between your (and your special friends) suggestions and my suggestions is that you are suggesting in order to take advantage of a particular class / hero next round but I'm suggesting to provide "every" player of webdota an equal advantage / disadvantage (i.e. BALANCE).

      You don't (and probably will never) seem to understand the relation between BKB and Butterfly. Here let me break it down for you because I know you have "special" needs ;D.


      BKB Features
         
      BUTTERFLY Features
      Provides Defense vs INT (i.e. only 1 class)
         
      Provides Defense vs AGI AND STR (i.e. 2 classes)
      Needs Mana to block Damage
         
      Needs NOTHING to block Damage
      In any given case, wastes only "1" turn & mana of attacker
         
      Can waste from 1 to 20 turns + Mana (if enrage / terror used) at once
      Can be disabled easily by burning mana
         
      Can NEVER be disabled


      It won't surprise me if even now you can't see the "obvious" advantages available to INT class with regard to "defensive items" ;D. If you still believe that BKB and Butterfly shouldn't be matched then you're biased and (as stated above) want to propose changes that benefit yourself and your group of friends only. Which further proves that you have zero concern about balance, you just want the changes for yourself  ::) ::).

      Dear LOD,

      Since BKB now works like butter, is it okay if we  will increase its price? if not, at least lower the %?


      Thank You!
      Sis, I know your concern but BKB's price can be "adjusted" (by making it slightly expensive than before) but not matched with Butterfly. Let me clarify that the comparison here is not between items, it the comparison between the "Defensive" attributes both items offer (i.e. Block spell vs Evasion).

      Keeping that in view, butterfly only provides 15% evasion (on higher cost) but you can get 20% evasion on MUCH cheaper cost. Hope you understand my point.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: tamtam on September 07, 2015, 10:34:09 PM
      fizzle + bkb will let ints use almost half of their mana early round. i think lets have the fizzle thing at lvl4 wherein ints got higher mana so there's no problem for them to kill? or there could still be fizzle at lvl 1 but less mana needed for spells? or there could be fizzle at lvl 1 but ints will have higher % of mana regen?


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 07, 2015, 11:40:36 PM
      fizzle + bkb will let ints use almost half of their mana early round. i think lets have the fizzle thing at lvl4 wherein ints got higher mana so there's no problem for them to kill? or there could still be fizzle at lvl 1 but less mana needed for spells? or there could be fizzle at lvl 1 but ints will have higher % of mana regen?
      I kind of agree but not totally. BKB + Fizzle will break INT's back bone early / mid and even late game.
      Therefore, Successful BKB block and Fizzle should refund some mana.

      Also, please make EUL regen 500 mana per cycle. INTs have no such item(s) that give INT (primary stat) and regen in the same item.

      TL;DR
      • BKB Block refunds some portion of Mana cost of used spell
      • Fizzle refunds some portion of Mana cost of used spell
      • EUL should give 500 mana regen (stackable) because INTs lack items that give INT + Mana regen.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zHaKkAs on September 08, 2015, 12:17:27 AM
      fizzle + bkb will let ints use almost half of their mana early round. i think lets have the fizzle thing at lvl4 wherein ints got higher mana so there's no problem for them to kill? or there could still be fizzle at lvl 1 but less mana needed for spells? or there could be fizzle at lvl 1 but ints will have higher % of mana regen?
      I kind of agree but not totally. BKB + Fizzle will break INT's back bone early / mid and even late game.
      Therefore, Successful BKB block and Fizzle should refund some mana.

      Also, please make EUL regen 500 mana per cycle. INTs have no such item(s) that give INT (primary stat) and regen in the same item.

      TL;DR
      • BKB Block refunds some portion of Mana cost of used spell
      • Fizzle refunds some portion of Mana cost of used spell
      • EUL should give 500 mana regen (stackable) because INTs lack items that give INT + Mana regen.
      At last some positive suggestion for int by Hate so LOD kindly listen to Hate and solve the mana problem of int then there is no problem if bkb blocks 25% of spell...


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: tamtam on September 08, 2015, 01:49:11 AM
      fizzle + bkb will let ints use almost half of their mana early round. i think lets have the fizzle thing at lvl4 wherein ints got higher mana so there's no problem for them to kill? or there could still be fizzle at lvl 1 but less mana needed for spells? or there could be fizzle at lvl 1 but ints will have higher % of mana regen?
      I kind of agree but not totally. BKB + Fizzle will break INT's back bone early / mid and even late game.
      Therefore, Successful BKB block and Fizzle should refund some mana.

      Also, please make EUL regen 500 mana per cycle. INTs have no such item(s) that give INT (primary stat) and regen in the same item.

      TL;DR
      • BKB Block refunds some portion of Mana cost of used spell
      • Fizzle refunds some portion of Mana cost of used spell
      • EUL should give 500 mana regen (stackable) because INTs lack items that give INT + Mana regen.

      yeah i think that would work. euls mana regen should increase. i once tried lina and doing sanity with 3 euls is just hard.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Hennrick on September 08, 2015, 01:58:40 AM
      Im ok with any game balance LOD will do with the game, so as long as multies will be gone or reduce their population..this is game is great especially if these multi players are dead..lol..i hope someday we'll find ways to make these multies life harder..

      they wont be reduced, they will still find ways to have advantages. Im shaking my head each time i see a player card posted by them here  :D


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: killua on September 08, 2015, 09:54:28 AM
      You are wrong, agi hero can kill int hero in 2 hit with terror if not evaded by butterfly at late game if you are AM or 3 hit if you are other agi hero type. At level 4 with mjilnor, if you are AM you can break any mana shield with one hit terror. If you are any other agi hero, just use 2 consecutive hit with terror the mana shield will be gone.
      Generally at level 4 int hero mana is around 10-11k. Agi hero damage with terror will be around 900-1200. 2 hit = 2400 dmg, will burn around 9600 mana. Thus the 3rd hit the mana shield will not working anymore.

      If you're killing noob INTs for breakfast, of course with Terror/Mjol, you can break the mana shield.  But at late game, the only way to overpower high quality INT and STR defense is to sell all your defensive items, even you Butterflies, and focus on pure damage items all the way. If you will not do that, if you will just rely on your core damage items such as mjol and multiple burizas, it's not enough. It will take more than 10 turns to kill including the evaded attacks.

      Check the ranking history. Check the death stats of INT and STR heroes (not the kills). That's basically more than enough evidence why they are dominating each round.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 08, 2015, 10:05:43 AM
      GG. why improve damage of the most purchased item (Demon Edge) and the most used reciped item (Divine Rapier)...
      Sorry but to say this is going to wrong direction =/
      LoD pls dont go for the easiest way to "fix" AGI. Arghh...
      What I see is more problems gonna appear...


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: torque on September 08, 2015, 10:16:05 AM
      GG. why improve damage of the most purchased item (Demon Edge) and the most used reciped item (Divine Rapier)...
      Sorry but to say this is going to wrong direction =/
      LoD pls dont go for the easiest way to "fix" AGI. Arghh...
      What I see is more problems gonna appear...

      Please elaborate on that.

      Don't just say "that is wrong" & "I see problems". Share them and maybe we would agree with you.  :)


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 08, 2015, 10:34:19 AM
      GG. why improve damage of the most purchased item (Demon Edge) and the most used reciped item (Divine Rapier)...
      Sorry but to say this is going to wrong direction =/
      LoD pls dont go for the easiest way to "fix" AGI. Arghh...
      What I see is more problems gonna appear...

      Please elaborate on that.

      Don't just say "that is wrong" & "I see problems". Share them and maybe we would agree with you.  :)

      said and explained a lot of times in my suggestions. tired to repeat.
      why make all AGI just stick to DR DR DR DR DR...
      when the problem is too many AGI limited to DR and Burize as their options.
      what shld be done is improving other ATTACK items.
      how many items are there in the game, more than 30.
      but when u ask an AGI what are their options... 5? =/


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: torque on September 08, 2015, 10:46:06 AM
      From development perspective, it will take time to implement Phantom Assassin.

      She will be the AGI hero with the critical damage chance uniqueness. This will deal with the need for Buriza.

      Divine Rapier will remain an option.

      Sadly, critical damage is essential to AGI heroes. And we only have Buriza for that.

      If we want another viable option, then it must be something that can match what Buriza and DR can give.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: killua on September 08, 2015, 11:23:17 AM
      This is the item damage ranking. The OLD and NEW columns are the attack ratio per 100 gold.

      NAMECOSTATKNEWOLD
      Mithril Hammer   1000     25     2.50     2.50     
      Divine Rapier   8900     200     2.25     2.19     
      Claymore   900     20     2.22     2.22     
      Javelin   1500     30     2.00     2.00     
      Quarterstaff   750     15     2.00     2.00     
      Broadsword   650     13     2.00     2.00     
      Blades of Attack   500     10     2.00     2.00     
      Sacred Relic   3300     60     1.82     1.82     
      Demon Edge   2700     48     1.78     2.00     
      Stygian Desolator   8500     100     1.18     1.18     
      Buriza-do Kyanon   10900     100     1.00     1.00     
      Cranium Basher   4150     30     0.72     0.72     

      As you can see guys, the DR update is not bad at all. That's only +.06 damage per 100 gold because Demon Edge's cost was increased as well. Based from the table above, we need to update the Cranium Basher. It's only useful during war.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 08, 2015, 11:50:08 AM
      i rather AGI get fixed by:

      each AGI stat gives 1 damage for AGI heroes.
      AGi has base 5% evasion
      AGI has base 10% critical
      Burize is limited to 1 per hero

      this is what I have in picture:
      AGI is able to kill, without CRIT. but CRIT will save some turns. not solely base on 100% CRIT to do the damage.
      and no need for DR for damage. instead, using combined items such as Burize, MKB, Deso/Mj/Diffusal (as orb) as offense, and match other slots with Defense or AGI stat such as BKB, HoD, Butterfly, or mixing with utilities items such as suggested Aghanim, Basher, etc.

      instead, you guys want: DR DR Burize Burize Burize. WHAT YOU GUYS WANT WITH DIVINE RAPIER AND BURIZE, WILL STOP THOSE NICE ITEMS COMING OUT.
      cant you see that Desolator is the one that has "problem" now? it is not picked. but you guys want LoD to fix on DR and Burize, which are already the MOST PICKED item in the game.
      so in other word, you guys gonna kill off other items.

      thats why I said, this is going to the wrong way. you dont fix the problem of weak item, but increase the problem of over-popularity item.
      look at this the other way round: how aboout make AntiMage (the top picked) has mana burn base on 300/400/500% of AGI, and mana burn deals 75% of mana burned as damage and 40% resist. There! AGI is now STRONG! woohoo! throw away all other AGI heroes. Now the game is AM vs Panda vs Obsidian.
      This is what u guys making WD going. instead of 20 Heroes, u guys want reduce to 3. Instead of 30 items, you guys want reduce to 10.

      As i said, this path will go from "strategy" to "lets see who are more active and have more friends to help".
      Take a deep thought about this.

      ==============

      The way I foresee, WD to be a success will be, none of the items are a "must" for any of the heroes.
      All items are so useful and fun, which give you headache, which 7 (actually i suggest make it 6, the less slots, the more strategy needed) items should I pick, for my selected hero.
      Only then, this game is called a strategy game.
      Not, hey I have 10 active players in my clan. Few AGI to help creep, INT to do Sunder, and a few of the clanmates to take the last hits. This is competing on level of "ACTIVENESS", not level of "STRATEGY".
      A game competing on activeness, is a game that FOOL the players. Coz the players NEED to ACTIVELY play the game.
      Thats the wrong path. But hardly anyone share my view.
      I am a terrible player in WD, no doubt. But sorry to say, I dont envy those in the "top". =/
      Whats the point of compete activeness... BLAH.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: C on September 08, 2015, 12:10:31 PM
      Only thing needed for agi is to make 1agi = 2 armor and terror=400 mana
      Str hero cant kill agi if he has high armor anyway. You may introduce an orb item which gives 100 damage and 7% of total hp of enemy as damage.

      You have to change the most popular hero's uniqueness to give a chance to other agility heros!!!


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: killua on September 08, 2015, 12:18:55 PM
      i rather AGI get fixed by:
      each AGI stat gives 1 damage for AGI heroes.
      AGi has base 5% evasion
      AGI has base 10% critical
      Burize is limited to 1 per hero

      We cannot simply suggest something like this Tomato. This will affect the entire hero system. Each hero have their own uniqueness. If evasion and critical will be built-in, it will be imbalance and OP for some other AGI heroes with innate special abilities (e.g. AM, Viper, SF, etc). Abilities such as mana burn, armor reduction and high bonus defense will be imbalance if we will add built-in evasion and critical.

      I've been playing AGI type since day 1 I registered in Webdota. The main issue with playing this hero type is that it lacks the capability to kill high STR heroes (esp. Tidehunter) and high level INT during late stage of the game. Most of the time, the round is about to end after we are able to acquire high tier items and bonus damage from training.

      I suggest the Backstab training can be increase a bit up to 2% more per cycle of training but with added cost to compensate.

      Terror @ 400 mana is decent enough. 200 is too spammable.
      Creep gold sharing should be reduced to 40% only. AGi heavily rely on creeps. If we will kill during the early stage of the game, we will be infested with revenge attacks and not a win-win situation for us. We will lose more gold in return. That's why the bonus from creep kills are very important.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 08, 2015, 12:39:59 PM
      i rather AGI get fixed by:
      each AGI stat gives 1 damage for AGI heroes.
      AGi has base 5% evasion
      AGI has base 10% critical
      Burize is limited to 1 per hero

      We cannot simply suggest something like this Tomato. This will affect the entire hero system. Each hero have their own uniqueness. If evasion and critical will be built-in, it will be imbalance and OP for some other AGI heroes with innate special abilities (e.g. AM, Viper, SF, etc). Abilities such as mana burn, armor reduction and high bonus defense will be imbalance if we will add built-in evasion and critical.

      I've been playing AGI type since day 1 I registered in Webdota. The main issue with playing this hero type is that it lacks the capability to kill high STR heroes (esp. Tidehunter) and high level INT during late stage of the game. Most of the time, the round is about to end after we are able to acquire high tier items and bonus damage from training.

      I suggest the Backstab training can be increase a bit up to 2% more per cycle of training but with added cost to compensate.

      Terror @ 400 mana is decent enough. 200 is too spammable.
      Creep gold sharing should be reduced to 40% only. AGi heavily rely on creeps. If we will kill during the early stage of the game, we will be infested with revenge attacks and not a win-win situation for us. We will lose more gold in return. That's why the bonus from creep kills are very important.

      if any AGI get OP by that, nerf that AGI. balance is just about numbers.
      what i fear most regarding this forum is players are so afraid of changes.
      high tier items, u mean MJ? ask for a reduce of price then. you played AGI, then do come out with these numbers.
      im glad you voice out that 200 mana Terror is too cheap. i agree on that.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: C on September 08, 2015, 12:48:36 PM
      This is for LoD;
      Please continue listening to those very smart and intelligent players who play the same hero since ever. They make very good suggestions really. Hate has always played str and all suggestions are for str. He knows only to suggest numbers. He has problems with the numbers. How could he know Death prophet without even playing it. What a stupid idea is to make sunder 50%. Str rarely dies until lvl6 and saves tons of gold and complates all his items at lvl6. Ofcourse there must be a skill that will kill str with 2 turns if he could not built any defance during the 6-7 days he was unkillable.
      Yea yea int is very poverful for sunder skill. Do not you see that int cant kill after he sunders? Sunder is assitt skill!! It does not make int poverful!! It does not support multies too. It supports team play.

      Now listen to agi players like killua. He has never played any hero other than  AM. Now he says DR damage should be higher. He never even gives creeps to his allies. But he cries for heal. Why should anyone pick int after these changes.If int is very poverful why dont they pick int? Do you think if seriousblack has chosen int player this rd he would be worse than rank 5? He was active 20 hours a day. Rank is related to teamplay and activity.

      By the way, until now I have played Naix, NS, BM, ALC, TIDE, SACRED, HK, LICH, OBSIDIAN, Lına, DP, WARLOCK, Jakiro, Nether, Gorgon, SA, URSA, nerub and AM.

      Regards


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: killua on September 08, 2015, 12:53:30 PM
      if any AGI get OP by that, nerf that AGI. balance is just about numbers.
      what i fear most regarding this forum is players are so afraid of changes.
      high tier items, u mean MJ? ask for a reduce of price then. you played AGI, then do come out with these numbers.
      im glad you voice out that 200 mana Terror is too cheap. i agree on that.

      How will you nerf the affected AGI heroes? We should remember the difference between Uniqueness and Hero Stats (agi, str, int, armor, etc.). Making Evasion and Critical built-in to all AGI heroes will greatly affect it's individual uniqueness. These two special abilities are already considered "unique abilities" in the form of items.

      AGI heroes simply needs to be able to catch up during the late stage of the game. That's all we need.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: shenron on September 08, 2015, 12:57:43 PM


      instead, you guys want: DR DR Burize Burize Burize. WHAT YOU GUYS WANT WITH DIVINE RAPIER AND BURIZE, WILL STOP THOSE NICE ITEMS COMING OUT.
      cant you see that Desolator is the one that has "problem" now? it is not picked. but you guys want LoD to fix on DR and Burize, which are already the MOST PICKED item in the game.
      so in other word, you guys gonna kill off other items.



      well i'm still using SD when playing agi hero, and i find it myself useful even thought it has 100 damage and very expensive scroll for such damage only, i just wanna know how much percentage it's corrupt orb...

      "New item: Monkey King Bar (1 x Javelin, 1 x Demon Edge, 1 x recipe), 50% of attack damage cannot be missed, not stackable" - about this item, how many damage it gives, its 50% cannot be missed, is it for chance or attack damage? i'm puzzled. if it's for chance, does it overlap butterfly 30% max evasion?



      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zHaKkAs on September 08, 2015, 01:25:39 PM
      This is for LoD;
      Please continue listening to those very smart and intelligent players who play the same hero since ever. They make very good suggestions really. Hate has always played str and all suggestions are for str. He knows only to suggest numbers. He has problems with the numbers. How could he know Death prophet without even playing it. What a stupid idea is to make sunder 50%. Str rarely dies until lvl6 and saves tons of gold and complates all his items at lvl6. Ofcourse there must be a skill that will kill str with 2 turns if he could not built any defance during the 6-7 days he was unkillable.
      Yea yea int is very poverful for sunder skill. Do not you see that int cant kill after he sunders? Sunder is assitt skill!! It does not make int poverful!! It does not support multies too. It supports team play.

      Now listen to agi players like killua. He has never played any hero other than  AM. Now he says DR damage should be higher. He never even gives creeps to his allies. But he cries for heal. Why should anyone pick int after these changes.If int is very poverful why dont they pick int? Do you think if seriousblack has chosen int player this rd he would be worse than rank 5? He was active 20 hours a day. Rank is related to teamplay and activity.

      By the way, until now I have played Naix, NS, BM, ALC, TIDE, SACRED, HK, LICH, OBSIDIAN, Lına, DP, WARLOCK, Jakiro, Nether, Gorgon, SA, URSA, nerub and AM.

      Regards
      Totally agreed with you dude...nice one....


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: killua on September 08, 2015, 01:25:47 PM
      Hi LOD,

      Is it possible to add the below killing stats summary in the ranking page? For future analysis, we can check how each hero type performs each round.

      TYPE VERSUS    STR   INT   AGI   
      STR    50   50   100   
      INT    50   50   100   
      AGI    50   50   100   




      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Lord of Dota on September 08, 2015, 02:58:23 PM
      Changes are finalized


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Street Man on September 08, 2015, 03:12:01 PM
      This is for LoD;
      Please continue listening to those very smart and intelligent players who play the same hero since ever. They make very good suggestions really. Hate has always played str and all suggestions are for str. He knows only to suggest numbers. He has problems with the numbers. How could he know Death prophet without even playing it. What a stupid idea is to make sunder 50%. Str rarely dies until lvl6 and saves tons of gold and complates all his items at lvl6. Ofcourse there must be a skill that will kill str with 2 turns if he could not built any defance during the 6-7 days he was unkillable.
      Yea yea int is very poverful for sunder skill. Do not you see that int cant kill after he sunders? Sunder is assitt skill!! It does not make int poverful!! It does not support multies too. It supports team play.

      Now listen to agi players like killua. He has never played any hero other than  AM. Now he says DR damage should be higher. He never even gives creeps to his allies. But he cries for heal. Why should anyone pick int after these changes.If int is very poverful why dont they pick int? Do you think if seriousblack has chosen int player this rd he would be worse than rank 5? He was active 20 hours a day. Rank is related to teamplay and activity.

      By the way, until now I have played Naix, NS, BM, ALC, TIDE, SACRED, HK, LICH, OBSIDIAN, Lına, DP, WARLOCK, Jakiro, Nether, Gorgon, SA, URSA, nerub and AM.

      Regards
      Totally agree with u 


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 08, 2015, 03:15:12 PM
      This is for LoD;
      Please continue listening to those very smart and intelligent players who play the same hero since ever. They make very good suggestions really. Hate has always played str and all suggestions are for str. He knows only to suggest numbers. He has problems with the numbers. How could he know Death prophet without even playing it. What a stupid idea is to make sunder 50%. Str rarely dies until lvl6 and saves tons of gold and complates all his items at lvl6. Ofcourse there must be a skill that will kill str with 2 turns if he could not built any defance during the 6-7 days he was unkillable.
      Yea yea int is very poverful for sunder skill. Do not you see that int cant kill after he sunders? Sunder is assitt skill!! It does not make int poverful!! It does not support multies too. It supports team play.

      Now listen to agi players like killua. He has never played any hero other than  AM. Now he says DR damage should be higher. He never even gives creeps to his allies. But he cries for heal. Why should anyone pick int after these changes.If int is very poverful why dont they pick int? Do you think if seriousblack has chosen int player this rd he would be worse than rank 5? He was active 20 hours a day. Rank is related to teamplay and activity.

      By the way, until now I have played Naix, NS, BM, ALC, TIDE, SACRED, HK, LICH, OBSIDIAN, Lına, DP, WARLOCK, Jakiro, Nether, Gorgon, SA, URSA, nerub and AM.

      Regards
      This is wrong on so many levels. In-fact, you don't even have slightest of idea about what you're talking about.

      1 - I have played STR only? What proof do you have for your claim? Yes I've played STR "Mostly" not "Only".
      2 - From a certain point of view, a player who has played a "class" the most has better chances of figuring out pros and cons of that class instead of being "Jack of all trades and master of none".
      3 - How could I know Death Prophet without playing it? Really, you got to be kidding me. She gets percentage of mana cost reduced on every spell. In-fact anyone playing ANY INT should know how Death Prophet works without even playing her.
      4 - Sunder 50% HP is stupid idea? And Sunder 15% HP is brilliant? It's completely ridiculous. Using "1" turn spell to damage a hero for "85%" hp? You are okay with this? Who would call it "justified" in their normal head? You can maybe.
      5 - STR rarely dies till level 6 :D? Again a claim based on "NOTHING". Okay tell me this, how much INT dies till level 6? Who actually dies till level 6? Your blame me for speaking about "Numbers" only. At-least my numbers are "backed" by some "facts" and data. What are your claims backed by? Backed by your buddies (http://forum.dotahomer.com/index.php?action=profile;u=6527) (who not to mention got banned previously for "suspicious" activities ;D).


      Ofcourse there must be a skill that will kill str with 2 turns if he could not built any defance during the 6-7 days he was unkillable.
      6 - I had to quote this specific line because it's a true definition of "STUPIDITY". If there "MUST" be a skill that kills STR in 2 turns then why can't there be skills that kill other classes in 2 turns too? Why not go "Equal" with all classes? Why only STR should die in 2 turns? Why the word "of-course" used in same sentence as "a skill that will kill STR with 2 turns". See, that's why I said you HAVE no clue what you're talking about.

      7- INTs can't kill anyone after sundering them? You seriously expect everyone (especially LOD to whom you're addressing your baseless post) would believe that :D? Hell, even I played INT last round and you should ask any official about how many "solo" kills I did with help of Sunder. Yes 50% SUNDER not 15%.

      Sunder is assitt skill!! It does not make int poverful!! It does not support multies too. It supports team play.
      8 - Now there have been many "fine" examples of baseless claims but the one quoted above takes all the cake. This again is a "PRIME" example of how you don't know what you're talking about. It doesn't make INT powerful then why the past rankings (which is a FACT and nothing that I came up with RANDOMLY like yourself) don't agree with you? It does not support multies too? Really this is interesting. Care to explain how it doesn't support multies? A "1" turn spell that takes away 85% of HP really doesn't support multies. Just WOW. Then you say, it supports "Team Play". So the teamplay is entirely based on "1" spell in general. GG.

      9 - You're just doing a "personal attack" on Killua. There is a very famous quote by Bruce Lee "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times". In view of that quote, I respect Killua's opinion about AGI class (i.e. the class that he has been playing more than anyone else). He never gives creeps to an ally and calls for healing has NOTHING to do with balance of this game. It's funny that you're even talking about such a thing.

      10 - Just like Killua (who has played AGI mostly), I have mostly played STR and that is why I know what problems STR class is facing. INT class can kill STR easily but STR got a very narrow chance to counter play. Generally, if two people are at same level, they both should have "equal" chances / opportunity / skill set to kill eachother. But in past rounds (and in your prime examples), it's like INT can kill 80% of the time and laugh at STRs that haha... I killed you 20 times you killed me only 5 times.. Ha ha.. haha.. YOu used more turns, I use only 2 turns..Haha ... Haha.. This is just lame. One player's FUN shouldn't mean other player's disappointment. It should be fun for everyone.

      11 - Unlike everything you have said, I think you "do" know how SeriousBlack got top rank and "how" many guys were supporting him. Having a group of friends (or in some cases multies) work for you to have you come out of fountain to do 1 hit kill and then returning back to fountain is a coward play. Yes he's doing 'hard work' by not sleeping. But actually the credit goes to his group. I really think this is unfair game-play. The way he was playing, I BET he could get rank one if he was playing Centaur / Warlock / or any "less picked" hero. You support such game-play? Well then you're on a negative path. I support a game-play where everyone should have equal opportunity and chance to play and "counter" play.

      12 - You and your buddies are just scared that people are now actually giving voice to their opinions on forum. People are now actually highlighting the "problems" with a particular class and / or game-play in general. And if you say (which I expect you to say) that why now giving all these opinions then have a look at the history of my posts. In 2008 till 2011, I've been requesting / suggesting changes for all the classes (not just INT).

      Source: http://forum.dotahomer.com/index.php?action=profile;u=6627;sa=showPosts;start=270


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zinhtet on September 08, 2015, 03:24:43 PM
      Does terror still work on Intl?  ???


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 08, 2015, 03:29:27 PM
      Does terror still work on Intl?  ???
      It works on STR and INT. Doesn't work on AGI.


      Changes are finalized
      I remember in your first draft of possible changes, you had mentioned "Warlock" also. May we all know if the Warlock is being changes (and what kind of changes we're talking about)? Thank you.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 08, 2015, 03:35:14 PM
      if any AGI get OP by that, nerf that AGI. balance is just about numbers.
      what i fear most regarding this forum is players are so afraid of changes.
      high tier items, u mean MJ? ask for a reduce of price then. you played AGI, then do come out with these numbers.
      im glad you voice out that 200 mana Terror is too cheap. i agree on that.

      How will you nerf the affected AGI heroes? We should remember the difference between Uniqueness and Hero Stats (agi, str, int, armor, etc.). Making Evasion and Critical built-in to all AGI heroes will greatly affect it's individual uniqueness. These two special abilities are already considered "unique abilities" in the form of items.

      AGI heroes simply needs to be able to catch up during the late stage of the game. That's all we need.

      if u havent read my other posts, i said that i prefer all 3 classes to be balanced, from beginning to the end.
      how cant we have AGI having 5% evasion and 10% crit as base?
      dont u see that all 3 classes have different armor effect / cap?
      dont u see that INT have mana shield?
      =/


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 08, 2015, 03:38:13 PM


      instead, you guys want: DR DR Burize Burize Burize. WHAT YOU GUYS WANT WITH DIVINE RAPIER AND BURIZE, WILL STOP THOSE NICE ITEMS COMING OUT.
      cant you see that Desolator is the one that has "problem" now? it is not picked. but you guys want LoD to fix on DR and Burize, which are already the MOST PICKED item in the game.
      so in other word, you guys gonna kill off other items.



      well i'm still using SD when playing agi hero, and i find it myself useful even thought it has 100 damage and very expensive scroll for such damage only, i just wanna know how much percentage it's corrupt orb...

      "New item: Monkey King Bar (1 x Javelin, 1 x Demon Edge, 1 x recipe), 50% of attack damage cannot be missed, not stackable" - about this item, how many damage it gives, its 50% cannot be missed, is it for chance or attack damage? i'm puzzled. if it's for chance, does it overlap butterfly 30% max evasion?



      the orb is only 15% on reducing armor. u may read it here @ http://www.webdota.net/guide.php

      and the MKB is clear: if your attack is "evaded", u still do 50% damage, instead of doing 0 damage, if u have MKB.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Lord of Dota on September 08, 2015, 03:39:32 PM
      Does terror still work on Intl?  ???
      It works on STR and INT. Doesn't work on AGI.


      Changes are finalized
      I remember in your first draft of possible changes, you had mentioned "Warlock" also. May we all know if the Warlock is being changes (and what kind of changes we're talking about)? Thank you.

      I drop it for round 63. Limited resources.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 08, 2015, 03:43:21 PM
      This is for LoD;
      Please continue listening to those very smart and intelligent players who play the same hero since ever. They make very good suggestions really. Hate has always played str and all suggestions are for str. He knows only to suggest numbers. He has problems with the numbers. How could he know Death prophet without even playing it. What a stupid idea is to make sunder 50%. Str rarely dies until lvl6 and saves tons of gold and complates all his items at lvl6. Ofcourse there must be a skill that will kill str with 2 turns if he could not built any defance during the 6-7 days he was unkillable.
      Yea yea int is very poverful for sunder skill. Do not you see that int cant kill after he sunders? Sunder is assitt skill!! It does not make int poverful!! It does not support multies too. It supports team play.

      Now listen to agi players like killua. He has never played any hero other than  AM. Now he says DR damage should be higher. He never even gives creeps to his allies. But he cries for heal. Why should anyone pick int after these changes.If int is very poverful why dont they pick int? Do you think if seriousblack has chosen int player this rd he would be worse than rank 5? He was active 20 hours a day. Rank is related to teamplay and activity.

      By the way, until now I have played Naix, NS, BM, ALC, TIDE, SACRED, HK, LICH, OBSIDIAN, Lına, DP, WARLOCK, Jakiro, Nether, Gorgon, SA, URSA, nerub and AM.

      Regards

      well thats the part that i am sad of. players suggest things on the heroes they play. instead of balancing the game, they want their heroes to be winning. instead of Webdota to be a good game, they want to just win in Webdota. i am at the edge of giving up =/
      this is just weird you see, if we can make this game interesting and more balanced, even by nerving the heroes u play, well, you can always pick the one that you think is now the strongest one in the round.
      when the game is giving u hard time which one to pick, thats when the game has go to a different level - BALANCED. i looked forward for this to happen ever since I touched WD...


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: killua on September 08, 2015, 03:59:28 PM
      • Anti Mage - Mana burn based on 50/100/150% of attack damage & 40% spell resistance
      • Feedback Orb - Mana burn based on 250% of attack damage instead of 150%

      LOD, just for clarification, does Feedback Orb stacks with AM's mana burn?


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: C on September 08, 2015, 04:05:29 PM
      Let me tell you about the fun round; Among the top 20 rank ~15 will be Shadow fiend ( which is agi) the ~4 will be str and 1 will be another agi. There is no need to put facts, previous rounds' data and numbers to know that.. Bravo!!!

       I am at the edge of giving up too..


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 08, 2015, 04:08:04 PM
      Hero
      • Obsidian Destroyer - Every spell casting has 20/30/40% chance to restore 10% of maximum mana pool
      • Ogre Magi - 10/20/30% chance for multi cast
      • Anti Mage - Mana burn based on 50/100/150% of attack damage & 40% spell resistance
      • Alchemist - 40% (from 35%) extra damage on creeping and chemical raged (lasts for 120 minutes instead of 45 minutes) when a creep is killed

      Magic
      • Terror will not work against Agility heroes and zero return damage will now work on consecutive attacks
      • Terror mana cost increased from 200 to 400
      • Sunder and Sunder Health leave 45% minumum HP instead of 50%

      Creep
      • Gold sharing from creep kill decreased from 50% to 20%

      Item
      • Black King Bar - 20% chance to block spell and no mana needed, instead of 35% with 100 mana
      • Feedback Orb - Mana burn based on 250% of attack damage instead of 150%
      • Euls Scepter of Divinity - 500 Mana regen per cycle instead of 100 Mana regen
      • Euls Scepter of Divinity - recipe cost from 1300 to 3300
      • Demon Edge - from + 36 attack to + 48 attack
      • Demon Edge - cost from 1800 to 2700
      • Buriza-do Kyanon - from + 80 attack to + 100 attack
      • Divine Rapier - from + 175 attack to + 200 attack
      • (http://www.webdota.net/image/item/javelin.jpg) New item: Javelin, cost 1500, + 30 attack
      • (http://www.webdota.net/image/item/mkb.jpg) New item: Monkey King Bar (1 x Javelin, 1 x Demon Edge, 1 x recipe), + 80 attack with True Strike, not stackable, recipe cost 2000

      Item popularity excluding portion
      Code:
      Demon Edge 415
      Ironwood Branch 348
      Ogre Axe 309
      Belt of Giant Strength 261
      Boots of Elvenskin 260
      Mithril Hammer 231
      Blade of Alacrity 230
      Robe of the Magi 221
      Sacred Relic 208
      Broadsword 205
      Blades of Attack 205
      Claymore 197
      Crystalys 191
      Talisman of Evasion 186
      Yasha 184
      Sange 179
      Eaglehorn 177
      Divine Rapier 175
      Buriza-do Kyanon 174
      Quarterstaff 152
      Staff of Wizardry 137
      The Butterfly 134
      Planeswalkers Cloak 121
      Euls Scepter of Divinity 121
      Sange and Yasha 120
      Black King Bar 117
      Plate Mail 108
      Vitality Booster 90
      Chain Mail 85
      Ring of Health 64
      Messerschmidts Reaver 62
      Helm of Iron Will 52
      Heart of Tarrasque 52
      Aegis of the Immortal 49
      Slippers of Agility 49
      Circlet of Nobility 45
      Mystic Staff 45
      Hood of Defiance 39
      Gauntlets of Ogre Strength 39
      Point Booster 38
      Void Stone 37
      Cranium Basher 33
      Energy Booster 32
      Diffusal Blade 32
      Sobi Mask 30
      Soul Booster 29
      Mjollnir 25
      Witching Stave 24
      Ring of Protection 22
      Ring of Basilius 22
      Perseverance 20
      Gloves of Haste 18
      Bloodstone 15
      Mantle of Intelligence 13
      Hand of Midas 12
      Shiva's Guard 11

      Below 10:
      Aghanim's Scepter, Null Talisman, Stygian Desolator, Bracer, Wraith Band, Blade Mail, Mask of Death, Ring of Regeneration

      Misc
      • Add Assist in Player Card
      • Show Assisted Kill for top kill list
      • DRR will be activated when there is assist
      • Fixed DRR bug not showing 0% in enemy list when there is zero kill
      • Fixed Butcher and Silencer streak bonus only happens at 9th streak kills
      • Fixed Pandaren uniqueness not working in consecutive attacks

      True Strike: 50% attack damage cannot be missed. For example, a total of 100 attack damage points, enemy can only evades 50 points out of it (when the miss/evasion is triggered).

      Next round is un-audited Fun Round, there will be daily Side shuffle includes clan-less players. Expect the round will be longer as lane HP will be doubled. Official round 63 will be arranged on Oct.

      out of a sudden, i do see LIGHT in the game lol. sort of like all the changes, except a few:
      - i think AM can be better if 100/150/200% mana burn and 30% resist.
      - Terror works 50% effective against AGI.

      glad to see BKB reduced to 20%, while MKB is implemented to counter Evasion. These 2 gonna change quite a lot of the game meta.
      ps: lastly before the round start, I would like to say INT spell damage is still too high IMO. I hope LoD can one day amend like this:

      - spells have a better base damage (a number that LoD see fit, from the calculation, eg. at level 2 what a AGI/STR normally will deal on damage, then the base damage of level 2 spell should be something around that number, and the spells get a bit of increased damage from INT stat. just a quick example, let say at level 2, AGI deal 200 dmg per attack, while STR deal 100 damage without Enrage, 400 damage with Enrage, then level 2 spell of INT maybe: 120 (base dmg) + 2 (modifier) x 60 (int) = 240 damage. something like that, so LoD can have some control/monitor over spell damage, not being too strong.
      - on the other hand, HoD limited to one, so that we wont see INT being hammered too badly.
      - also HoD probably only have 30% resist.
      - i am looking forward that INT can Sunder, and cast DC + RS combo to kill a STR in probably 6-8 turns, while STR also probably kill someone using Enrage with 7-10 turns, while AGI probably kill someone with more turns say 8-12 turns, but no worry, AGI has more turns. things like tat. not Sunder, phew phew, a STR without any HoD die in 2 turns @,@
      - HoD becomes one option to defense against spells, but i hope players may opt not to use it and wont feed like mad.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: C on September 08, 2015, 04:08:14 PM
      • Anti Mage - Mana burn based on 50/100/150% of attack damage & 40% spell resistance
      • Feedback Orb - Mana burn based on 250% of attack damage instead of 150%

      LOD, just for clarification, does Feedback Orb stacks with AM's mana burn?
      It does. None of the hero uniqueness is orb. So they all stack..


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 08, 2015, 04:08:46 PM
      • Anti Mage - Mana burn based on 50/100/150% of attack damage & 40% spell resistance
      • Feedback Orb - Mana burn based on 250% of attack damage instead of 150%

      LOD, just for clarification, does Feedback Orb stacks with AM's mana burn?

      i am sure it stacks.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: killua on September 08, 2015, 04:14:24 PM
      if u havent read my other posts, i said that i prefer all 3 classes to be balanced, from beginning to the end.
      how cant we have AGI having 5% evasion and 10% crit as base?
      dont u see that all 3 classes have different armor effect / cap?
      dont u see that INT have mana shield?
      =/

      I respect your suggestion Tomato but adding built-in evasion and critical to AGI is OP already. I agree with you that all heroes should be balance. But if our idea will greatly affect the entire game program, then it's not practical thing to do. With the limited resources LOD have, we cannot overhaul things just like that. But if you will show us calculations with your suggestion, then let's see. Every tme we suggest, we have to at least support this with numbers and stats. Otherwise, it will be just trial and error balancing procedure.

      I'm not focused in AGI alone. I'm in favor for changes for the other hero types as well. If there's at least 1 AGI hero in the top 5  each round (without support), then I will not be here in the forum suggesting things for AGI at all.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Hennrick on September 08, 2015, 04:17:10 PM
      Ohh AM was slightly tweak. Well, ill give it a try nxt round. However, Damage is subpar with other agility heroes. It will reasonable if it will be change to 200% or 250%.

      Let's all have fun next round :D


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 08, 2015, 04:19:29 PM
      if u havent read my other posts, i said that i prefer all 3 classes to be balanced, from beginning to the end.
      how cant we have AGI having 5% evasion and 10% crit as base?
      dont u see that all 3 classes have different armor effect / cap?
      dont u see that INT have mana shield?
      =/

      I respect your suggestion Tomato but adding built-in evasion and critical to AGI is OP. I agree with you that all heroes should be balance. But if our idea will greatly affect the entire game program, then it's not practical thing to do. With the limited resources LOD have, we cannot overhaul things just like that.

      I'm not focused in AGI alone. I'm in favor for changes for the other hero types as well. If there's at least 1 AGI hero in the top 5  each round, then I will not be here in the forum suggesting things for AGI at all.

      for that, I am with u. I dont play AGI nor INT (would actually like to have a try on AGI in the future), but i do love to see AGI get improved, while INT and STR get balanced to match AGI.
      for the 10% crit, i suggested becoz i see a lot of AGI crying for improved crit chance on Burize, which i am 100% against. any improvement on the crit chance on Burize will make it 101% pick by AGI.
      for the 5% evasion, this is to combine my suggestion of making evasion max at 20%. but with current MKB, probably isnt a need to nerf evasion for the time being.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: 0rgaZm on September 08, 2015, 05:18:00 PM
      Hi LOD, can you give agi even the smallest hp regen? :-(


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 08, 2015, 05:28:18 PM
      Is Black King Bar (BKB) stack-able (i.e. 20% chance to block 1 spell)?
      It can be and cannot be (just like Butterfly). Needs little clarification.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zinhtet on September 08, 2015, 05:36:58 PM
      Will this fun round be like old fun round? (100% hp n mana regen every cycle). Will streak hero work? ???


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Lord of Dota on September 08, 2015, 06:05:20 PM
      Will this fun round be like old fun round? (100% hp n mana regen every cycle). Will streak hero work? ???

      Streak hero still work, Full HP and Mana regen every cycle, you remember well, don't you.

      Is Black King Bar (BKB) stack-able (i.e. 20% chance to block 1 spell)?
      It can be and cannot be (just like Butterfly). Needs little clarification.

      Not stackable, it was never stackbable.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zinhtet on September 08, 2015, 06:19:02 PM
      Will this fun round be like old fun round? (100% hp n mana regen every cycle). Will streak hero work? ???

      Streak hero still work, Full HP and Mana regen every cycle, you remember well, don't you.

      Is Black King Bar (BKB) stack-able (i.e. 20% chance to block 1 spell)?
      It can be and cannot be (just like Butterfly). Needs little clarification.

      Not stackable, it was never stackbable.
      Will this fun round be like old fun round? (100% hp n mana regen every cycle). Will streak hero work? ???

      Streak hero still work, Full HP and Mana regen every cycle, you remember well, don't you.

      Is Black King Bar (BKB) stack-able (i.e. 20% chance to block 1 spell)?
      It can be and cannot be (just like Butterfly). Needs little clarification.

      Not stackable, it was never stackbable.

      What I do remember is that I picked silencer that round. * uniqueness  :'(


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Street Man on September 08, 2015, 06:43:50 PM
      Will this fun round be like old fun round? (100% hp n mana regen every cycle). Will streak hero work? ???

      Streak hero still work, Full HP and Mana regen every cycle, you remember well, don't you.

      Is Black King Bar (BKB) stack-able (i.e. 20% chance to block 1 spell)?
      It can be and cannot be (just like Butterfly). Needs little clarification.

      Not stackable, it was never stackbable.
      Will this fun round be like old fun round? (100% hp n mana regen every cycle). Will streak hero work? ???

      Streak hero still work, Full HP and Mana regen every cycle, you remember well, don't you.

      Is Black King Bar (BKB) stack-able (i.e. 20% chance to block 1 spell)?
      It can be and cannot be (just like Butterfly). Needs little clarification.

      Not stackable, it was never stackbable.

      What I do remember is that I picked silencer that round. * uniqueness  :'(
      Haha I remembered that rd I was using husker too and can't use its unique perfectly


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zHaKkAs on September 08, 2015, 06:47:08 PM
      [quote ]

      True Strike: 50% attack damage cannot be missed. For example, a total of 100 attack damage points, enemy can only evades 50 points out of it (when the miss/evasion is triggered).

      [/quote]
      LOD need clarification
      Attack damage here iso Base attack or it also include damage like from MJ's or enrage ??


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 08, 2015, 06:51:03 PM
      Just for everyone (including myself) who know very little about "Fun Rounds", here's what we can expect:

      Quote from: Lord of Dota
      • No registration required, account for round 23 will be used
      • Full HP & Mana regeneration every cycle
      • Once killed, you will respawn at fountain
      • 5,000 starting gold, and starting region is fountain

      Below is the starting stats when account reset.

      Strength heroes:
      28 Str, 20 Agi, 20 Intel

      Agility heroes:
      20 Str, 25 Agi, 20 Intel

      Intel heroes:
      20 Str, 20 Agi, 25 Intel

      Source: http://forum.dotahomer.com/index.php?topic=1222.msg25218#msg25218


      True Strike: 50% attack damage cannot be missed. For example, a total of 100 attack damage points, enemy can only evades 50 points out of it (when the miss/evasion is triggered).

      LOD need clarification

      Attack damage here iso Base attack or it also include damage like from MJ's or enrage ??
      It's attack damage. i.e. Basic Damage + Damage from Items


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Lord of Dota on September 08, 2015, 07:10:27 PM
      It is total damage for True Strike

      For fun round, only this remained,

      Full HP & Mana regeneration every cycle
      5,000 starting gold
      Lane HP Doubled (longer duration)


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Street Man on September 08, 2015, 07:35:41 PM
      It is total damage for True Strike

      For fun round, only this remained,

      Full HP & Mana regeneration every cycle
      5,000 starting gold
      Lane HP Doubled (longer duration)
      Can't wait ;D ;D


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zinhtet on September 08, 2015, 10:17:45 PM
      Will terror work for consecutive attack?


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Superinggo on September 08, 2015, 11:58:36 PM
      Hi LOD, maybe u can allow 2 orbs stack for agi and only 1 orb for int and str?

      Also, maybe can make item from mask of madness to helm of dominator and then satanic?

      Satanic can give hp and a little damage and lifesteal also.  Agi needs this items as they have no natural healing every cycle.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 09, 2015, 12:26:36 AM
      Dear LOD,

      I know changes for upcoming round have been finalized but I request to add or at-least consider the following changes for Round # 63:

      • Ogre Magi's uniqueness (i.e. Multi Cast) works on Heals too. I'm requesting this change because all other INTs' uniqueness works with Reaper's Scythe spell except Ogre Magi (which makes sense). Just to compensate this, Multi Cast on healing would be nice. And since it's healing, it doesn't give Ogre Magi any unfair advantage.
      • Changes to "Dispel Potion" and some "Game Play Changes" mentioned here (http://forum.dotahomer.com/index.php?topic=4262.0) (especially the DRR, Honor System, Fizzle and Experience gain from heals).


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 09, 2015, 02:10:38 PM
      Hi LOD, maybe u can allow 2 orbs stack for agi and only 1 orb for int and str?

      Also, maybe can make item from mask of madness to helm of dominator and then satanic?

      Satanic can give hp and a little damage and lifesteal also.  Agi needs this items as they have no natural healing every cycle.

      Against the idea of 2 orb.
      AGI has Terror to avoid return damage.
      And always can get HoD for regen


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 10, 2015, 01:03:29 PM
      Quick fix for next RD:

      1. Eaglehorn price reduced from 16000g to 13500g
      * matching Reaver and Mystic
      * reduced effectiveness of Butterfly's evasion due to MKB
      * enhance usage of MJ

      2. HoT's sunder block chance reduced from 40% to 30%, recipe price reduce from 5500g to 1000g (new HoT total price will be 20500g)
      * matching new Butterfly price as much as possible (refer to #1, now will be 17250g) and Shiva's 19000g
      * reduced block on sunder is to balance the trend of STR being too hard to be killed

      3. MKB recipe price increased from 2000g to 4000g, requires Demon Edge and TWO Javelin, total price of 9700g, damage increased from 80 to 110.
      * too good as a counter for evasion, a higher price required for such effect
      * at the same time, an increased damage on the item makes it more valuable for a slot

      4. Desolator recipe price reduced from 7500g to 6000g, requires TWO Hammer, total price of 8000g (reduced from 8500g).
      * easier to build up (by getting the 2 Hammer first, and less gold saving needed for the recipe)
      * better pricing for an underused item

      5. Ring of Health price reduced from 7500g to 6000g.
      * overpriced for an underpower item, which only brought because needing as an ingredient

      6. Point Booster price reduced from 7500g to 5500g.
      * the effect of this item is balance of the other 2 Booster, no reason for it to be the most expensive one

      7. Soul Booster recipe reduced from 2500g to 1000g, HP and MP boost from 20% reduced to 15%
      * total price (combined with #6) will reduce from 21000g to 17500g.
      * reduced effect to match lower price, and also to balance one of the best late game item for STR and INT

      8. Bloodstone HP and MP boost from 25% reduced to 20%
      * total price (due to #5 and #7) will reduce from 40500g (one of the most expensive item in game) to 35500g.
      * reduced effect for the extremely strong item for STR and INT (i see this as one small indirect boost on AGI)

      9. Hood of Defiance reduced resist from 40% to 30%
      * a reduced effect due to lower total cost (refer #5).
      * also making STR easier to get killed by spells (STR heroes are the one getting the most value from HoD)

      Extra:
      10. Remake of Aghanim Scepter, requires Ogre Axe, Blade of Alacrity and Staff of Wizardry, recipe 7500g (total price 22500g). Effect +20 to all Stat and:
      STR = Gain 10% increased total damage when using Enrage
      AGI = Gain 10% increased total damage when using Terror
      INT = Gain 10% spell effectiveness
      * a rounded item for all 3 classes.
      * balanced effect, players may choose to have it or not to get it, not a must item.

      11. Improve Butterfly evasion from 15% to 25%, still cap at 30% evasion though, increase recipe from 1000 gold to 4500 gold.
      * no need for getting 2 Butterfly
      * as per I suggested in the past, AGI should have 10% crit chance and 5% evasion at level 1 to improve their overall performance. the 25% from new BF and the 5% base = 30% cap.
      * enhance the evasion since MKB hammered evasion a lot (when I suggested making evasion max at 20% from 30%, thats hammering it 33% weaker. MKB make it 50% weaker. LOL)

      12. Add Heavens Halberd
      Requires Sange and Talisman of Evasion, recipe 5000g. +30 STR +15% Evasion. Max 1 Heavens Halberd
      * alternative of Butterfly for evasion

      13. Nerf Sange, scrap away the +5 attack; nerf Yasha, scrap away the +5 armor, nerf SnY, scrap away the +10 attack +10 armor, nerf Eul Scepter, scrap away the +500 mana regen.
      * SnY too popular
      * Eul too popular

      14. Rework Witching Stave
      Requires Eul Scepter and Talisman of Evasion, recipe 5000g. +30 INT +15% Evasion. Max 1 Witching Stave
      * alternative of Butterfly for evasion, specially made for INT


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: shenron on September 10, 2015, 01:20:12 PM
      Quick fix for next RD:

      1. Eaglehorn price reduced from 16000g to 13500g
      * matching Reaver and Mystic
      * reduced effectiveness of Butterfly's evasion due to MKB
      * enhance usage of MJ

      2. HoT's sunder block chance reduced from 40% to 30%, recipe price reduce from 5500g to 1000g (new HoT total price will be 20500g)
      * matching new Butterfly price as much as possible (refer to #1, now will be 17250g) and Shiva's 19000g
      * reduced block on sunder is to balance the trend of STR being too hard to be killed

      3. MKB recipe price increased from 2000g to 4000g, requires Demon Edge and TWO Javelin, total price of 9700g, damage increased from 80 to 110.
      * too good as a counter for evasion, a higher price required for such effect
      * at the same time, an increased damage on the item makes it more valuable for a slot

      4. Desolator recipe price reduced from 7500g to 6000g, requires TWO Hammer, total price of 8000g (reduced from 8500g).
      * easier to build up (by getting the 2 Hammer first, and less gold saving needed for the recipe)
      * better pricing for an underused item

      5. Ring of Health price reduced from 7500g to 6000g.
      * overpriced for an underpower item, which only brought because needing as an ingredient

      6. Point Booster price reduced from 7500g to 5500g.
      * the effect of this item is balance of the other 2 Booster, no reason for it to be the most expensive one

      7. Soul Booster recipe reduced from 2500g to 1000g, HP and MP boost from 20% reduced to 15%
      * total price (combined with #6) will reduce from 21000g to 17500g.
      * reduced effect to match lower price, and also to balance one of the best late game item for STR and INT

      8. Bloodstone HP and MP boost from 25% reduced to 20%
      * total price (due to #5 and #7) will reduce from 40500g (one of the most expensive item in game) to 35500g.
      * reduced effect for the extremely strong item for STR and INT (i see this as one small indirect boost on AGI)

      9. Hood of Defiance reduced resist from 40% to 30%
      * a reduced effect due to lower total cost (refer #5).
      * also making STR easier to get killed by spells (STR heroes are the one getting the most value from HoD)

      Extra:
      10. Remake of Aghanim Scepter, requires Ogre Axe, Blade of Alacrity and Staff of Wizardry, recipe 7500g (total price 22500g). Effect +20 to all Stat and:
      STR = Gain 10% increased total damage when using Enrage
      AGI = Gain 10% increased total damage when using Terror
      INT = Gain 10% spell effectiveness
      * a rounded item for all 3 classes.
      * balanced effect, players may choose to have it or not to get it, not a must item.

      i like this, most specially with MKB and AS  :-* :-* :-* :-*


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 10, 2015, 04:08:56 PM
      Extra:
      10. Remake of Aghanim Scepter, requires Ogre Axe, Blade of Alacrity and Staff of Wizardry, recipe 7500g (total price 22500g). Effect +20 to all Stat and:
      STR = Gain 10% increased total damage when using Enrage
      AGI = Gain 10% increased total damage when using Terror
      INT = Gain 10% spell effectiveness
      * a rounded item for all 3 classes.
      * balanced effect, players may choose to have it or not to get it, not a must item.
      All other proposed item changes look good on paper. But they're just reduce / increase in stat and pricing. However, the Aghanim Scepter is a very expensive item offering a very nominal reward. It's the sole reason why this item was made less than 10 times in past round (I made it and then regretted making it ;D).

      The question here is, the amount that you're investing in Aghanim Scepter (current total cost = 45,000 and your suggested cost 22,500), same amount invested in primary stat's training (i.e. Ice Mantle Training for INT, Beast Training for STR and BackStab training for AGI) gives even better damage output to the individual classes.

      So for a very minor incentive, investing into this item is a bad choice. However, if the incentive is doubled, then may be.. Perhaps.. Meh.. ;D.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 10, 2015, 05:53:41 PM
      Extra:
      10. Remake of Aghanim Scepter, requires Ogre Axe, Blade of Alacrity and Staff of Wizardry, recipe 7500g (total price 22500g). Effect +20 to all Stat and:
      STR = Gain 10% increased total damage when using Enrage
      AGI = Gain 10% increased total damage when using Terror
      INT = Gain 10% spell effectiveness
      * a rounded item for all 3 classes.
      * balanced effect, players may choose to have it or not to get it, not a must item.
      All other proposed item changes look good on paper. But they're just reduce / increase in stat and pricing. However, the Aghanim Scepter is a very expensive item offering a very nominal reward. It's the sole reason why this item was made less than 10 times in past round (I made it and then regretted making it ;D).

      The question here is, the amount that you're investing in Aghanim Scepter (current total cost = 45,000 and your suggested cost 22,500), same amount invested in primary stat's training (i.e. Ice Mantle Training for INT, Beast Training for STR and BackStab training for AGI) gives even better damage output to the individual classes.

      So for a very minor incentive, investing into this item is a bad choice. However, if the incentive is doubled, then may be.. Perhaps.. Meh.. ;D.

      haha, ya just amending numbers for these items. too bad late for fun round testing.

      as for AS, u compare to training:
      (a) Book of Wisdom x 2 = 31000g = 16 to all Stats
      (b) 2 Ice 2 Dark 2 Beast = 42000g = 20 to all Stats
      (c) 3 main Stat training = 21000g = 30 to main Stat
      (d) New AS = 22500g = 20 to all Stats, and extra 10% damage increase for all classes

      a and b are definitely beaten by d.

      as for c, lets see is the extra 10 main stat is better than 10% damage increase:

      STR, 10str x 70hp x 15% enrage = 105 dmg. for 105 dmg, AS effect will beat up the 10str when he has 100str (100str x 70hp x 15% enrage x 10% AS) = 105 dmg. I have yet to count how useful the 20 INT is, for casting more Enrage.

      AGI, 10agi... i dont need to do any calculation. 10% increased in total damage is definitely better than 10 AGI.

      INT, as per STR. 10 INT currently gives a boost of roughly 72-180 spell damage, definitely beat up by the 10% spell effectiveness.

      And ONCE AGAIN, I emphasis that any ITEM, should be at the border of "should I get this, or not?" instead of "OK, this item is a MUST". Strategy is made when you need to choose, decide, thats what you call strategic decision. I wont make the 10% any stronger, not even by 1%.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: shenron on September 10, 2015, 06:16:19 PM
      Extra:
      10. Remake of Aghanim Scepter, requires Ogre Axe, Blade of Alacrity and Staff of Wizardry, recipe 7500g (total price 22500g). Effect +20 to all Stat and:
      STR = Gain 10% increased total damage when using Enrage
      AGI = Gain 10% increased total damage when using Terror
      INT = Gain 10% spell effectiveness
      * a rounded item for all 3 classes.
      * balanced effect, players may choose to have it or not to get it, not a must item.
      All other proposed item changes look good on paper. But they're just reduce / increase in stat and pricing. However, the Aghanim Scepter is a very expensive item offering a very nominal reward. It's the sole reason why this item was made less than 10 times in past round (I made it and then regretted making it ;D).

      The question here is, the amount that you're investing in Aghanim Scepter (current total cost = 45,000 and your suggested cost 22,500), same amount invested in primary stat's training (i.e. Ice Mantle Training for INT, Beast Training for STR and BackStab training for AGI) gives even better damage output to the individual classes.

      So for a very minor incentive, investing into this item is a bad choice. However, if the incentive is doubled, then may be.. Perhaps.. Meh.. ;D.

      haha, ya just amending numbers for these items. too bad late for fun round testing.

      as for AS, u compare to training:
      (a) Book of Wisdom x 2 = 31000g = 16 to all Stats
      (b) 2 Ice 2 Dark 2 Beast = 42000g = 20 to all Stats
      (c) 3 main Stat training = 21000g = 30 to main Stat
      (d) New AS = 22500g = 20 to all Stats, and extra 10% damage increase for all classes

      a and b are definitely beaten by d.

      as for c, lets see is the extra 10 main stat is better than 10% damage increase:

      STR, 10str x 70hp x 15% enrage = 105 dmg. for 105 dmg, AS effect will beat up the 10str when he has 100str (100str x 70hp x 15% enrage x 10% AS) = 105 dmg. I have yet to count how useful the 20 INT is, for casting more Enrage.

      AGI, 10agi... i dont need to do any calculation. 10% increased in total damage is definitely better than 10 AGI.

      INT, as per STR. 10 INT currently gives a boost of roughly 72-180 spell damage, definitely beat up by the 10% spell effectiveness.

      And ONCE AGAIN, I emphasis that any ITEM, should be at the border of "should I get this, or not?" instead of "OK, this item is a MUST". Strategy is made when you need to choose, decide, thats what you call strategic decision. I wont make the 10% any stronger, not even by 1%.

      can you add for AS the percentage of spell effectiveness, thank you.  ;D ;D ;D


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 10, 2015, 06:18:54 PM
      haha, ya just amending numbers for these items. too bad late for fun round testing.

      as for AS, u compare to training:
      (a) Book of Wisdom x 2 = 31000g = 16 to all Stats
      (b) 2 Ice 2 Dark 2 Beast = 42000g = 20 to all Stats
      (c) 3 main Stat training = 21000g = 30 to main Stat
      (d) New AS = 22500g = 20 to all Stats, and extra 10% damage increase for all classes

      a and b are definitely beaten by d.

      as for c, lets see is the extra 10 main stat is better than 10% damage increase:

      STR, 10str x 70hp x 15% enrage = 105 dmg. for 105 dmg, AS effect will beat up the 10str when he has 100str (100str x 70hp x 15% enrage x 10% AS) = 105 dmg. I have yet to count how useful the 20 INT is, for casting more Enrage.

      AGI, 10agi... i dont need to do any calculation. 10% increased in total damage is definitely better than 10 AGI.

      INT, as per STR. 10 INT currently gives a boost of roughly 72-180 spell damage, definitely beat up by the 10% spell effectiveness.

      And ONCE AGAIN, I emphasis that any ITEM, should be at the border of "should I get this, or not?" instead of "OK, this item is a MUST". Strategy is made when you need to choose, decide, thats what you call strategic decision. I wont make the 10% any stronger, not even by 1%.
      I'm glad that you went through all the calculations instead of (what most people do here) started throwing random irrelevant stuff.

      I haven't study you calculations yet (I'm driving) but apparently, you didn't consider one major factor in your calculation that all the trainings "don't take any slot". So with all stats you get from training, you still have a "slot" free. And I think we don't even need to argue about the value of a slot. Considering the "slot" factor entirely changes the whole picture. I hope you would agree.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 10, 2015, 07:51:45 PM
      haha, ya just amending numbers for these items. too bad late for fun round testing.

      as for AS, u compare to training:
      (a) Book of Wisdom x 2 = 31000g = 16 to all Stats
      (b) 2 Ice 2 Dark 2 Beast = 42000g = 20 to all Stats
      (c) 3 main Stat training = 21000g = 30 to main Stat
      (d) New AS = 22500g = 20 to all Stats, and extra 10% damage increase for all classes

      a and b are definitely beaten by d.

      as for c, lets see is the extra 10 main stat is better than 10% damage increase:

      STR, 10str x 70hp x 15% enrage = 105 dmg. for 105 dmg, AS effect will beat up the 10str when he has 100str (100str x 70hp x 15% enrage x 10% AS) = 105 dmg. I have yet to count how useful the 20 INT is, for casting more Enrage.

      AGI, 10agi... i dont need to do any calculation. 10% increased in total damage is definitely better than 10 AGI.

      INT, as per STR. 10 INT currently gives a boost of roughly 72-180 spell damage, definitely beat up by the 10% spell effectiveness.

      And ONCE AGAIN, I emphasis that any ITEM, should be at the border of "should I get this, or not?" instead of "OK, this item is a MUST". Strategy is made when you need to choose, decide, thats what you call strategic decision. I wont make the 10% any stronger, not even by 1%.
      I'm glad that you went through all the calculations instead of (what most people do here) started throwing random irrelevant stuff.

      I haven't study you calculations yet (I'm driving) but apparently, you didn't consider one major factor in your calculation that all the trainings "don't take any slot". So with all stats you get from training, you still have a "slot" free. And I think we don't even need to argue about the value of a slot. Considering the "slot" factor entirely changes the whole picture. I hope you would agree.

      just compare to SnY 20000g. new AS is more rounded and late game efficient than SnY.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: lonelykidz on September 11, 2015, 11:20:29 PM
      If Black King Bar will block any spell without any mana cost, i suggest make it to level 4 item again.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 12, 2015, 12:26:10 PM
      Fix, batch 2:

      Part 1, regarding "attack" item having uneven % (STR/INT 50%, AGI 70%) :

      1. base HP from 150 increase to 700
      * currently say a STR hero, after some hours with 40 STR = 150 + (40x70) = 2950HP
      * while an AGI/INT hero will start probably only 25 STR = 150 + (25x70) = 1900HP, a STR having 64% more HP
      * with 1000 base HP, 40 STR = 700 + (40x70) = 3500HP
      * while AGI/INT with 25 STR = 700 + (25x70) = 2450HP, a STR now only having 43% more HP

      2. attack item set back to 100% at all level, for ALL classes
      * as per #1, now everyone has 550 HP more, attack item has to be stronger
      * i suggest all 3 classes to be same at 100%, as that this encourages different sort of build
      * i wish to see INT building "attack" strategy instead of just spell castings, in near future

      3. STR no longer gives all heroes 1 attack damage, instead, each main Stat gives 1 extra attack for the hero
      (STR stat for STR, AGI stat for AGI, INT stat for INT)
      * as AGI build up their Agi in early game, this will enhance their attack damage
      * as STR hero get no benefit from this (same as per current), and INT barely need attack, this is a little buff to the AGI
      * and also for long run (to mid/late), this shall provides AGI a slight buff

      4. extra adjustment similar to this, base MP from 150 increase to 350.
      * an extra 200 mana can help AGI to easier getting 1 more cast of 400 mana Terror
      * and a base 150 MP is just around 2 point of INT, it doesnt make much sense for base to be that low
      (i know that this is from real DotA, but real DotA int dont give 70 mp)

      Part 2, regarding INT spells. Currently I see that Lina and Holy Knight get special spells as their uniqueness.
      I see this as considerably unfair, unless all INT are differentiate through unique spells.
      Also this current setting limit the play style of selected INT heroes.

      1. Remove Sunder Health. Remake Sunder now only swap HP, leaving minimum 45% HP on target (in other word, new Sunder = old Sunder Health)
      2. Amend Mana Burn to AGI only.
      3. Add Mana Drain, level 2 spell and for INT only, draining a portion of target's mana for caster. (to compensate INT strategy of using Sunder to swap enemy INT mana)

      Part 3, regarding weird scaling of Enrage that is too heavy on mana cost in early game and too powerful and cheap in late game.
      1. Reduced mana cost from 600/500/400/300 to 450/400/350/300
      2. Reduced damage from 8/10/12/15% to 6/8/10/12%

      Math as per Part 1, (level 1, 40 STR, 24 INT)
      New Enrage = 3500 HP x 6% = 210 damage able to cast 4 times due to cheaper mana = 840 damage
      Old system and old Enrage = 40x70+150HP x 8% =  236 damage able to cast 3 times = 708 damage
      An improvement in early game, but definitely weaker later (level 4 onward with same mana cost but lower 3% HP damage)


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 12, 2015, 05:52:46 PM


      Magic
      • Terror will not work against Agility heroes and zero return damage will now work on consecutive attacks

      1. Terror not working on consecutive attacks

      2. Terror not working on return damage too.
      Fantastic, enemy received up to 100 damage !
       You received 103 damage in return from enemy !


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: D.Pro on September 13, 2015, 12:17:12 AM
      Fix, batch 2:

      Part 1, regarding "attack" item having uneven % (STR/INT 50%, AGI 70%) :

      1. base HP from 150 increase to 700
      * currently say a STR hero, after some hours with 40 STR = 150 + (40x70) = 2950HP
      * while an AGI/INT hero will start probably only 25 STR = 150 + (25x70) = 1900HP, a STR having 64% more HP
      * with 1000 base HP, 40 STR = 700 + (40x70) = 3500HP
      * while AGI/INT with 25 STR = 700 + (25x70) = 2450HP, a STR now only having 43% more HP

      2. attack item set back to 100% at all level, for ALL classes
      * as per #1, now everyone has 550 HP more, attack item has to be stronger
      * i suggest all 3 classes to be same at 100%, as that this encourages different sort of build
      * i wish to see INT building "attack" strategy instead of just spell castings, in near future

      3. STR no longer gives all heroes 1 attack damage, instead, each main Stat gives 1 extra attack for the hero
      (STR stat for STR, AGI stat for AGI, INT stat for INT)
      * as AGI build up their Agi in early game, this will enhance their attack damage
      * as STR hero get no benefit from this (same as per current), and INT barely need attack, this is a little buff to the AGI
      * and also for long run (to mid/late), this shall provides AGI a slight buff

      4. extra adjustment similar to this, base MP from 150 increase to 350.
      * an extra 200 mana can help AGI to easier getting 1 more cast of 400 mana Terror
      * and a base 150 MP is just around 2 point of INT, it doesnt make much sense for base to be that low
      (i know that this is from real DotA, but real DotA int dont give 70 mp)

      Part 2, regarding INT spells. Currently I see that Lina and Holy Knight get special spells as their uniqueness.
      I see this as considerably unfair, unless all INT are differentiate through unique spells.
      Also this current setting limit the play style of selected INT heroes.

      1. Remove Sunder Health. Remake Sunder now only swap HP, leaving minimum 45% HP on target (in other word, new Sunder = old Sunder Health)
      2. Amend Mana Burn to AGI only.
      3. Add Mana Drain, level 2 spell and for INT only, draining a portion of target's mana for caster. (to compensate INT strategy of using Sunder to swap enemy INT mana)



      Nice suggestions


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zHaKkAs on September 13, 2015, 06:16:19 PM
      Fix, batch 2:

      Part 1, regarding "attack" item having uneven % (STR/INT 50%, AGI 70%) :

      1. base HP from 150 increase to 700
      * currently say a STR hero, after some hours with 40 STR = 150 + (40x70) = 2950HP
      * while an AGI/INT hero will start probably only 25 STR = 150 + (25x70) = 1900HP, a STR having 64% more HP
      * with 1000 base HP, 40 STR = 700 + (40x70) = 3500HP
      * while AGI/INT with 25 STR = 700 + (25x70) = 2450HP, a STR now only having 43% more HP

      2. attack item set back to 100% at all level, for ALL classes
      * as per #1, now everyone has 550 HP more, attack item has to be stronger
      * i suggest all 3 classes to be same at 100%, as that this encourages different sort of build
      * i wish to see INT building "attack" strategy instead of just spell castings, in near future

      3. STR no longer gives all heroes 1 attack damage, instead, each main Stat gives 1 extra attack for the hero
      (STR stat for STR, AGI stat for AGI, INT stat for INT)
      * as AGI build up their Agi in early game, this will enhance their attack damage
      * as STR hero get no benefit from this (same as per current), and INT barely need attack, this is a little buff to the AGI
      * and also for long run (to mid/late), this shall provides AGI a slight buff

      4. extra adjustment similar to this, base MP from 150 increase to 350.
      * an extra 200 mana can help AGI to easier getting 1 more cast of 400 mana Terror
      * and a base 150 MP is just around 2 point of INT, it doesnt make much sense for base to be that low
      (i know that this is from real DotA, but real DotA int dont give 70 mp)

      Part 2, regarding INT spells. Currently I see that Lina and Holy Knight get special spells as their uniqueness.
      I see this as considerably unfair, unless all INT are differentiate through unique spells.
      Also this current setting limit the play style of selected INT heroes.

      1. Remove Sunder Health. Remake Sunder now only swap HP, leaving minimum 45% HP on target (in other word, new Sunder = old Sunder Health)
      2. Amend Mana Burn to AGI only.
      3. Add Mana Drain, level 2 spell and for INT only, draining a portion of target's mana for caster. (to compensate INT strategy of using Sunder to swap enemy INT mana)


      All suggestions are good and 3rd one is very good...


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Superinggo on September 13, 2015, 06:35:45 PM
      As an agi player, I could see all the hate on Agi with these changes instead of helping it.

      Agi can't kill str. Agi can kill int, but mana shield makes it difficult especially with butterfly, and now Terror can't be targeted on agi enemy hero.
      So who can agi kill only? Creeps! Yes only creeps!!

      So what is Agi's use? Only creep and mana burn! WTF is this?

      Yes so many changes but always focusing on STR and INT.

      AGI is already underpowered, but why stil nerf it?

      SA from 3 damage per agi point become 1/2/3 per agi point.
      AM's mana burn nerferd as well.
      SF only changed to kill fellow agi.
      Ursa 50% bonus damage per 5 consecutive attacks.. really underpowered
      Weaver conditionally full hp restoration but people just skip 5/10/15/20, easily countered
      BS 20% extra attack damage to target with less than 20% of hp pool and restore 80% of hp based on enemy's hp pool when killed - when str got 10k hp, can 20% damage only when hp is 2k? and 20% so little.. I won't even need hp restore since I've got healers.
      Viper Armor works against spell damage at 40% max & 70% more return damage - i think this is the most balance agi hero.. nice def but no damage just like tide.
      Gorgon - 50% more armor effectiveness & regenerate 1 mana for every 5 attacking damage points - same with Viper..

      If there will be no changes, I can't see playing AGI again and will start to go play other class again. I love playing AGI because of the number of turns I can accumulate but with this being at the bottom of the foodchain, agis turns just are useless..

      or maybe not.. agi is only for creeping..
      Agi need around 8 turns per creep. 8*4 = 32 turns
      Agi also help at least 2 teammates to creep. 32*2 = 64 turns
      that's already 96 turns per day.. and very little turns left for killing and making a living for himself..

      I am still hoping to see something change for agi someday!


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Hennrick on September 13, 2015, 06:44:49 PM
      agi was meant to feed always.  ;D

      I just played agi to help my teammates. thats the only reason why agi existed in this game.

      They say that Agi have imba damage. Well ive been saying that agi always sacrifices DEFENSE for damage. unlike int when pumping Ints has mana shield and str heroes have high hp when they pump str.

      How about agi? pumping damage? we cant even max our armor at lvl 3 onwards. atleast make agi easier to pump Armor and make terror work on cons turns.

      Been enduring this gameplay every round.



      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 13, 2015, 08:28:09 PM
      Yes yes, don't play agi, soon there would be any agi left other then multies. So no creep for everyone= balance


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Hennrick on September 13, 2015, 10:32:26 PM
      boyott the usage of agi :D


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Cracker on September 14, 2015, 01:16:15 AM
      Not playing this round but just checked the ranking..

      Well 23 str players in the top 25 at this stage is not something to be laughed about, please be careful with the changes, game is going to be ruined -_-


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zinhtet on September 14, 2015, 06:58:03 AM
      N the new bkb is like 70-80% block rate  :'(


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 14, 2015, 01:56:02 PM
      Not playing this round but just checked the ranking..

      Well 23 str players in the top 25 at this stage is not something to be laughed about, please be careful with the changes, game is going to be ruined -_-
      Broken after round 61, lol.
      Every time i read new round change, i not sure want laugh or cry ~~


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Street Man on September 14, 2015, 02:55:26 PM
      Even e 100% mana regen , int r still feeding like hell
       :'( :'(
      Need some changes


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Hennrick on September 14, 2015, 03:40:31 PM
      Even e 100% mana regen , int r still feeding like hell
       :'( :'(
      Need some changes

      because of the SF :D


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: lonelykidz on September 14, 2015, 03:55:06 PM
      There is 28 str at top 30.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 14, 2015, 09:37:59 PM
      Ftw why are you after Str... you want a 14k hp dying all the time

      This is the balance... hail HaTE pa g
      Huh? Why blame me? I didn't propose all the changes except OD, EUL & BKB. I still stand by my suggestions. Only problem I see is introduction of MKB.

      - BKB got 20% block rate (from 35%) which is reasonable.
      - Both BKB & Butter(s) don't use mana. Which means both items will waste turns of all classes. Reasonable.
      - EUL gives 500 mana regen. A well needed buff for INTs. Again reasonable.

      However, MKB is the item responsible for massive deaths of INT class. Because if you remove MKB from equation then all classes have equal opportunities to waste each-other's turns. But with introduction of MKB, INTs can't make waste of other classes' turns.

      And MKB wasn't my suggestion :D.

      Anyway, it's just test round. Hopefully more problems with the game will be highlighted.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: D.Pro on September 14, 2015, 09:53:26 PM
      Ftw why are you after Str... you want a 14k hp dying all the time

      This is the balance... hail HaTE pa g
      Huh? Why blame me? I didn't propose all the changes except OD, EUL & BKB. I still stand by my suggestions. Only problem I see is introduction of MKB.

      - BKB got 20% block rate (from 35%) which is reasonable.
      - Both BKB & Butter(s) don't use mana. Which means both items will waste turns of all classes. Reasonable.
      - EUL gives 500 mana regen. A well needed buff for INTs. Again reasonable.

      However, MKB is the item responsible for massive deaths of INT class. Because if you remove MKB from equation then all classes have equal opportunities to waste each-other's turns. But with introduction of MKB, INTs can't make waste of other classes' turns.

      And MKB wasn't my suggestion :D.

      Anyway, it's just test round. Hopefully more problems with the game will be highlighted.


      You highlighted yourself as biggest problem webdota ever faced....


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 15, 2015, 12:47:24 AM
      You highlighted yourself as biggest problem webdota ever faced....
      True !!!
      All I see is 2 kids who always played video games on SUPER EXTREME EASY MODE with the help of cheat codes and / or trainers.

      Try a different difficulty setting for once :p.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 15, 2015, 01:22:44 AM
      Oh look, we make the following changes

      1. sunder is on str is a waste
      2. Rs don't even exist
      3. terror is useless

      4. when enrage turn?

      lets work in support of nerf-ing every type so everyone use 20 turns for 1 kill


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 15, 2015, 01:46:25 AM
      Oh look, we make the following changes

      1. sunder is on str is a waste
      2. Rs don't even exist
      3. terror is useless

      4. when enrage turn?

      lets work in support of nerf-ing every type so everyone use 20 turns for 1 kill

      1. 65% HP gone in 1 spell is not a waste. Besides the game shouldn't revolve around "Sunder" only. There should be various strategies to kill / assist. Right now it's a formula i.e. Pre Sunder: Mana Burn > INT take kill > Repeat and After Sunder: Sunder > AGI / STR takes kill.
      2. RS needs rework, especially in the "Fizzle" area.
      3. Agreed on Terror (since it'll ignore enemy's armor and only AGIs make lots of Armor but terror doesn't work on AGIs lol ;D).
      4. Yes Enrage should be buffed ;D.

      For Terror I gave a suggestion as under:
      I have a fun idea for Terror:
      • Terror on INT: 3/6/10% Damage increased on hit based on enemy's "CURRENT" mana (note, I mentioned MANA not INT).
      • Terror on STR: 3/6/10% Damage increased on hit based on enemy's "CURRENT" HP (note, I mentioned HP not STR).
      • Terror on AGI: no effect. OR 5/10/15% Armor Reduction on hit

      Notes:
      - Above colored values can be changed because AGIs have hell lots of turns but then again, they don't have that much mana (which they can increase if they want to :D).
      - Above terror changes will make AGI viable late game when INTs have hell lot of mana and STRs have hell lot of hp.
      - Idea behind above terror changes is to boost AGI class to compete with already strong STR and already STRONGER INT classes.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: D.Pro on September 15, 2015, 02:59:33 AM
      Oh look, we make the following changes

      1. sunder is on str is a waste
      2. Rs don't even exist
      3. terror is useless

      4. when enrage turn?

      lets work in support of nerf-ing every type so everyone use 20 turns for 1 kill

      Hail HaTE  for bringing the balance to game


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 15, 2015, 09:34:11 AM
      Moderator pls remove those non related post regarding next rd changes. I am not here to read those flaming. I didnt have popcorn with me :/

      btw, updated my suggestion @ http://forum.dotahomer.com/index.php?topic=4263.msg80696#msg80696 adding 11-14
      and also update the batch 2 @ http://forum.dotahomer.com/index.php?topic=4263.msg80780#msg80780 adding Part 3


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: D.Pro on September 15, 2015, 01:42:39 PM
      Quick fix for next RD:

      1. Eaglehorn price reduced from 16000g to 13500g
      * matching Reaver and Mystic
      * reduced effectiveness of Butterfly's evasion due to MKB
      * enhance usage of MJ

      2. HoT's sunder block chance reduced from 40% to 30%, recipe price reduce from 5500g to 1000g (new HoT total price will be 20500g)
      * matching new Butterfly price as much as possible (refer to #1, now will be 17250g) and Shiva's 19000g
      * reduced block on sunder is to balance the trend of STR being too hard to be killed

      3. MKB recipe price increased from 2000g to 4000g, requires Demon Edge and TWO Javelin, total price of 9700g, damage increased from 80 to 110.
      * too good as a counter for evasion, a higher price required for such effect
      * at the same time, an increased damage on the item makes it more valuable for a slot

      4. Desolator recipe price reduced from 7500g to 6000g, requires TWO Hammer, total price of 8000g (reduced from 8500g).
      * easier to build up (by getting the 2 Hammer first, and less gold saving needed for the recipe)
      * better pricing for an underused item

      5. Ring of Health price reduced from 7500g to 6000g.
      * overpriced for an underpower item, which only brought because needing as an ingredient

      6. Point Booster price reduced from 7500g to 5500g.
      * the effect of this item is balance of the other 2 Booster, no reason for it to be the most expensive one

      7. Soul Booster recipe reduced from 2500g to 1000g, HP and MP boost from 20% reduced to 15%
      * total price (combined with #6) will reduce from 21000g to 17500g.
      * reduced effect to match lower price, and also to balance one of the best late game item for STR and INT

      8. Bloodstone HP and MP boost from 25% reduced to 20%
      * total price (due to #5 and #7) will reduce from 40500g (one of the most expensive item in game) to 35500g.
      * reduced effect for the extremely strong item for STR and INT (i see this as one small indirect boost on AGI)

      9. Hood of Defiance reduced resist from 40% to 30%
      * a reduced effect due to lower total cost (refer #5).
      * also making STR easier to get killed by spells (STR heroes are the one getting the most value from HoD)

      Extra:
      10. Remake of Aghanim Scepter, requires Ogre Axe, Blade of Alacrity and Staff of Wizardry, recipe 7500g (total price 22500g). Effect +20 to all Stat and:
      STR = Gain 10% increased total damage when using Enrage
      AGI = Gain 10% increased total damage when using Terror
      INT = Gain 10% spell effectiveness
      * a rounded item for all 3 classes.
      * balanced effect, players may choose to have it or not to get it, not a must item.

      11. Improve Butterfly evasion from 15% to 25%, still cap at 30% evasion though, increase recipe from 1000 gold to 4500 gold.
      * no need for getting 2 Butterfly
      * as per I suggested in the past, AGI should have 10% crit chance and 5% evasion at level 1 to improve their overall performance. the 25% from new BF and the 5% base = 30% cap.
      * enhance the evasion since MKB hammered evasion a lot (when I suggested making evasion max at 20% from 30%, thats hammering it 33% weaker. MKB make it 50% weaker. LOL)

      12. Add Heavens Halberd
      Requires Sange and Talisman of Evasion, recipe 5000g. +30 STR +15% Evasion
      * alternative of Butterfly for evasion

      13. Nerf Sange, scrap away the +5 attack; nerf Yasha, scrap away the +5 armor, nerf SnY, scrap away the +10 attack +10 armor, nerf Eul Scepter, scrap away the +500 mana regen.
      * SnY too popular
      * Eul too popular

      14. Rework Witching Stave
      Requires Eul Scepter and Talisman of Evasion, recipe 5000g. +30 INT +15% Evasion
      * alternative of Butterfly for evasion, specially made for INT
      Any item that gives alternate to second butterfly and gives evasion is good thing....
      Cost changes are nice
      Overall... two thumbs up for every suggestion... hope lod do them in next rd...


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 15, 2015, 02:18:13 PM
      amended a little: max 1 witching staff and max 1 halberd.

      btw i am worry about MKB being so good and become another "must have" item =/ sigh...


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 15, 2015, 03:04:48 PM
      THERE SHOULD NOT BE ANY % ( CHANCE DEPENDENT ITEM ) ON THE GAME. !!!

      i would say keep it low =)


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 15, 2015, 04:14:00 PM
      Al-right, from now on I'm going to ignore comments from these two individuals D.Pro (http://forum.dotahomer.com/index.php?action=profile;u=8449) and C (http://forum.dotahomer.com/index.php?action=profile;u=8653). Because these two special kids always blame me for everything happening in their lives. They also try hard to drag me into silly arguments which I'm going to ignore now.

      Check their previous history of posts and they have contributed NOTHING positive to the community.

      Now, back on topic, there 'are' issues with WebDota and some *special* kids are not able to understand that whole reason for Test Round / Fun round is to get data, feedback and analyze the situation. Which is part of the "Process".

      These issues shall be addressed one by one. A game like WebDota will not be fixed in 1 day. We all should admit it and try to "solve" the issues instead of pointing fingers at me each other.

      Lastly, everyone has the right to suggest. Some suggestion look bad, some look interesting but it's LOD / Admin's job to select and assess the suggestions. Also, it's not necessary that a suggestion that seems "BAD" to you is actually "BAD" for the game. YOU and GAME are entirely different things.

      The way see it, the following areas (priority wise) should be improved / changed:

      1 - MULTIES
      2 - CLASSES
      3 - ITEMS


      We need to address the above issues in the same order because even if you make changes for point # 3 and 2 but don't address #1 then the change doesn't matter. In the same way, unless Point # 1 and point # 2 are improved / changed, making any change in point # 3 is meaning less.

      So let's be constructive for once and have positive contribution. Stop thinking for yourselves only.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: torque on September 15, 2015, 04:43:25 PM
      For 1, there is really nothing left to be done. Those who want to create multies and are very good at hiding it will always be in game.

      For 2, We need to go back to round 60 and refocus on AGILITY class. Fun round shows us that the current changes heavily favor STR while greatly disfavor INT.



      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 15, 2015, 04:58:47 PM
      there is things that can be done to get rid of multies...
      rework the system, from ST vs SC to clans vs clans.

      16 hours pre-war time for everyone, which gold and exp gain from killing will be reduced by 70%.
      8 hours fixed war time for those in clan. wars will be auto selected by system base on honor.
      1 round last for 14 days. winner is of course the top 3 clans.

      now, multies efficiency is reduced by 70% when out of war.
      and if u like, u may create 10 characters and put them in the same clan.
      anyway it will be 10v10 =D

      ----

      regarding AGI, aint we (or at least me) already suggesting about how to enhance AGI for days? =/ meh.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: avrhil on September 15, 2015, 05:19:45 PM
      Formula for number 1 is wrong. Remember BKB now works like hell w/o mana.


       ;D
      Oh look, we make the following changes

      1. sunder is on str is a waste
      2. Rs don't even exist
      3. terror is useless

      4. when enrage turn?

      lets work in support of nerf-ing every type so everyone use 20 turns for 1 kill

      1. 65% HP gone in 1 spell is not a waste. Besides the game shouldn't revolve around "Sunder" only. There should be various strategies to kill / assist. Right now it's a formula i.e. Pre Sunder: Mana Burn > INT take kill > Repeat and After Sunder: Sunder > AGI / STR takes kill.
      2. RS needs rework, especially in the "Fizzle" area.
      3. Agreed on Terror (since it'll ignore enemy's armor and only AGIs make lots of Armor but terror doesn't work on AGIs lol ;D).
      4. Yes Enrage should be buffed ;D.

      For Terror I gave a suggestion as under:
      I have a fun idea for Terror:
      • Terror on INT: 3/6/10% Damage increased on hit based on enemy's "CURRENT" mana (note, I mentioned MANA not INT).
      • Terror on STR: 3/6/10% Damage increased on hit based on enemy's "CURRENT" HP (note, I mentioned HP not STR).
      • Terror on AGI: no effect. OR 5/10/15% Armor Reduction on hit

      Notes:
      - Above colored values can be changed because AGIs have hell lots of turns but then again, they don't have that much mana (which they can increase if they want to :D).
      - Above terror changes will make AGI viable late game when INTs have hell lot of mana and STRs have hell lot of hp.
      - Idea behind above terror changes is to boost AGI class to compete with already strong STR and already STRONGER INT classes.



      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 15, 2015, 05:32:43 PM
      http://forum.dotahomer.com/index.php?topic=821.msg80835#msg80835


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Archangel on September 15, 2015, 06:05:08 PM


      You highlighted yourself as biggest problem webdota ever faced....

      Haha! I think everyone will agree on this  :D :D :D


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 15, 2015, 06:07:56 PM
      Formula for number 1 is wrong. Remember BKB now works like hell w/o mana.
      It's true. I am sure there must be a bug because 20% shouldn't trigger that often. May be LOD made a typo and instead of 20% he wrote 200% ;D?


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: killua on September 15, 2015, 06:37:27 PM
      Hi LOD,  i think we need to change the damage  dealt formula for evasion against consecutive attacks. We need to loop per total number of attacks and then count the successful values. When we attack consecutively, it is not instantaneous. There's interval between attacks. It's possible to evade all 20 consecutive attacks at the same time but the chance should be very slim.

      Even Goku cannot punch the enemy instantaneously. There's interval at hypersonic speed.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Hennrick on September 15, 2015, 08:56:24 PM
      I demand make DR lesser chance to drop! or any item with decent source of damage.

      I demand make agi train armor no int expensive way!

      I demand SF uniqueness to be lowered or reworked. (even i suggest it wont be implemented, so i think it;s useless)

      I demand Str's to be balance

      I demand BKB to be tweak and be lvl 4 items.

      I demand improvement on int's fizzle rate at low lvl till they reach lvl 5 and above.

      I demand a trial by combat to those who will disagree on me  ;D

      just kidding.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: D.Pro on September 15, 2015, 10:39:32 PM
      I demand make DR lesser chance to drop! or any item with decent source of damage.

      I demand make agi train armor no int expensive way!

      I demand SF uniqueness to be lowered or reworked. (even i suggest it wont be implemented, so i think it;s useless)

      I demand Str's to be balance

      I demand BKB to be tweak and be lvl 4 items.

      I demand improvement on int's fizzle rate at low lvl till they reach lvl 5 and above.

      I demand a trial by combat to those who will disagree on me  ;D

      just kidding.

      Valar morghulis


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 16, 2015, 12:25:37 AM
      I demand make DR lesser chance to drop! or any item with decent source of damage.
      Agreed on the lesser chance or drop-able after at-least 5 kills (shouldn't drop in WAR).

      I demand make agi train armor no int expensive way!
      I couldn't understand what you are trying to say here..

      I demand SF uniqueness to be lowered or reworked. (even i suggest it wont be implemented, so i think it;s useless)
      Agreed on reworked part. Lowering it will just make people stop using him at all.

      I demand Str's to be balance
      And what is imbalance with STRs? Their HP? You got to be kidding.

      I demand BKB to be tweak and be lvl 4 items.
      Blocked spells by BKB should refund mana to the attacker to compensate mana issues for INT class. Just like butter, BKB should waste Turn but wasting turn + full mana of that particular spell is bit harsh.

      I demand improvement on int's fizzle rate at low lvl till they reach lvl 5 and above.
      Strongly agree. As level is directly related with "Experience" (i.e. more experience = more level), it doesn't make sense that a higher level INT should have higher rate of fizzle. It's either decrease fizzle rates or make 75% mana refunded when spell is fizzled.

      I demand a trial by combat to those who will disagree on me  ;D
      I demand fried Chicken ;D.

      just kidding.
      No I'm not ;D.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 16, 2015, 04:32:16 AM
      Creep
      Gold sharing from creep kill decreased from 50% to 20%

      Last time it was 0% to gold sharing, then change to 50% to reduce multi abuse
      Now we change back to 80%

      Multi will force main account take 4 creep day at 2
      Was good change to fight multi last time has now turn to encourage multies to abuse AGAIN?


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: torque on September 16, 2015, 08:22:43 AM
      regarding AGI, aint we (or at least me) already suggesting about how to enhance AGI for days? =/ meh.

      With SF's uniqueness implemented, those suggestions do not mean much at all for AGI IMO.

      We just made one AGI the ultimate bane for all AGIs since we rendered their best defensive uniqueness almost moot.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 16, 2015, 09:53:00 AM
      regarding AGI, aint we (or at least me) already suggesting about how to enhance AGI for days? =/ meh.

      With SF's uniqueness implemented, those suggestions do not mean much at all for AGI IMO.

      We just made one AGI the ultimate bane for all AGIs since we rendered their best defensive uniqueness almost moot.

      when SF uniqueness changed to ignore armor, i immediately voiced out that its not suppose to be.
      but no one cares. and i have also suggested to change SF uniqueness to ignore probably 20% armor and increase attack by 1 per kill.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: torque on September 16, 2015, 10:21:34 AM

      when SF uniqueness changed to ignore armor, i immediately voiced out that its not suppose to be.
      but no one cares. and i have also suggested to change SF uniqueness to ignore probably 20% armor and increase attack by 1 per kill.

      Then can we agree to scrap SF uniqueness and change it?

      I mean its one thing to make bf almost literally useless. Its another thing to create a hero that will strip AGI of their armor.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 16, 2015, 10:31:09 AM

      when SF uniqueness changed to ignore armor, i immediately voiced out that its not suppose to be.
      but no one cares. and i have also suggested to change SF uniqueness to ignore probably 20% armor and increase attack by 1 per kill.

      Then can we agree to scrap SF uniqueness and change it?

      I mean its one thing to make bf almost literally useless. Its another thing to create a hero that will strip AGI of their armor.

      of coz. else why i need to suggest? xD


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Hennrick on September 16, 2015, 10:04:57 PM
      I demand make DR lesser chance to drop! or any item with decent source of damage.
      Agreed on the lesser chance or drop-able after at-least 5 kills (shouldn't drop in WAR).

      DR doesnt drop in war. if you dropped one that was during ancient time of Webdota.

      I demand make agi train armor no int expensive way!
      I couldn't understand what you are trying to say here..

      you wont understand since u havent played a lot of agi. Strs = just pump HP and get BF and HOD u are all good.

      Meanwhile, Agis starts feeding because of low armor if they aim for good damage.

      I demand SF uniqueness to be lowered or reworked. (even i suggest it wont be implemented, so i think it;s useless)
      Agreed on reworked part. Lowering it will just make people stop using him at all.

      I demand Str's to be balance
      And what is imbalance with STRs? Their HP? You got to be kidding.

      any skill with % like enrage and uniquenes is imba at lvl 5 onwards. its for the benefit of strs also

      I demand BKB to be tweak and be lvl 4 items.
      Blocked spells by BKB should refund mana to the attacker to compensate mana issues for INT class. Just like butter, BKB should waste Turn but wasting turn + full mana of that particular spell is bit harsh.

      half of spell damage instead of 0 is much better

      I demand improvement on int's fizzle rate at low lvl till they reach lvl 5 and above.
      Strongly agree. As level is directly related with "Experience" (i.e. more experience = more level), it doesn't make sense that a higher level INT should have higher rate of fizzle. It's either decrease fizzle rates or make 75% mana refunded when spell is fizzled.

      I demand a trial by combat to those who will disagree on me  ;D
      I demand fried Chicken ;D.

      you're not allowed to eat fried chicken, remember you have a high cholesterol level and rheumatism? :D

      just kidding.
      No I'm not ;D.
      you are the joke here :D





      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 16, 2015, 11:41:36 PM
      I demand Str's to be balance
      And what is imbalance with STRs? Their HP? You got to be kidding.
      any skill with % like enrage and uniquenes is imba at lvl 5 onwards. its for the benefit of strs also

      Funny coming from a person who always played AM and AM's both Uniqueness are % based ;D.

      I demand BKB to be tweak and be lvl 4 items.
      Blocked spells by BKB should refund mana to the attacker to compensate mana issues for INT class. Just like butter, BKB should waste Turn but wasting turn + full mana of that particular spell is bit harsh.
      half of spell damage instead of 0 is much better

      Makes sense. May be if INTs make MKB then half damage is done with BKB triggers :P.


      I demand a trial by combat to those who will disagree on me  ;D
      I demand fried Chicken ;D.
      you're not allowed to eat fried chicken, remember you have a high cholesterol level and rheumatism? :D

      No I don't remember, I have amnesia too ;D.

      just kidding.
      No I'm not ;D.
      you are the joke here :D

      Then the joke's on you ;D. Literally ;D.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Hennrick on September 17, 2015, 12:30:39 AM
      im referring to specific damage enhancer.

      40% magic reduction is nothing at late game when ints have FOD and higher int. For Mana burn, it will be imba if AM can deal bonus damage based on mana burn. So i dont think there's no problem with that.

      I've played Beastmaster, Alchemist and Lifestealer from previous rounds around round 30+. I just played AM for my clanmates.

      I could say that Enrage is a powerful skill. str with 30k HP can deal 4.5k damage + uniqueness. I know that it will be reduced by armor. However, In reality there;s no agi that can max his armor in late game without sacrificing backstabs. So Agi are still paper.

      For BKB,  ints dont need to buy MKB, just change the bkb effect. AGAIN, NERF SF Both ints and agi will suffer from the coming round.



      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: torque on September 17, 2015, 10:19:29 AM
      Hi LoD,

      Could you check the True Strike damage? There are now several instances reported that the damage is not reduced by 50%. It is actually around 30 - 40 % instead.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 17, 2015, 03:09:13 PM
      Current Bugs:

      Bkb work more then 20%, close to 50-70%
      Mkb calculation with base damage does not effect enrage, Enrage/Naix passive is doing 100% damage.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: lonelykidz on September 17, 2015, 06:17:05 PM
      Current Bugs:

      Bkb work more then 20%, close to 50-70%
      Mkb calculation with base damage does not effect enrage, Enrage/Naix passive is doing 100% damage.
      How about agi? Mjilnor?


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 17, 2015, 06:49:52 PM
      Current Bugs:

      Bkb work more then 20%, close to 50-70%
      Mkb calculation with base damage does not effect enrage, Enrage/Naix passive is doing 100% damage.
      How about agi? Mjilnor?
      soon to know  ;D

      In the meantime,

      Here another bug

      (#2501) ahlaingm - Obsidion Destroyer
      Strength: 54   Armors: 34
      Agility: 34
      Intelligence: 175

      Enemy is revived with the power of Immortal !

      (#2539) Pokemon - Chen
      Strength:    40      Armors:    81
      Agility:    81   Kill Streak:    1
      Intelligence:    144

      Enemy is revived with the power of Immortal !

      Aegis in spare slot?

      Every round I am finding more and more bugs,
      I wonder when LOD going take my Suggestion seriously, more and more are supporting/agreeing on it.
      Even StTomato suggestion was close or exactly as my !
      Coincident?
      If one similar then maybe, but multiple suggestion similar?
      http://forum.dotahomer.com/index.php?topic=821.msg80835#msg80835


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 18, 2015, 12:59:24 AM
      erm erm not really very similar (oh ok, some are quite similar). your suggestion and my comment in RED

      Round 63 Suggestions
      For game balance by priority Part A -C, A being the most important.

      Part A
      1. Magic
      Sunder spell leaves target with minimum 30% of max hp instead of 50% too low. i would say current 45% is good. lowest i can go is 40%
      Reaper's Scythe - Deals 0.3 damage per health point missing, increase success rate by 10%, require 2000 mana erm erm i tot it is underpowered? why further reduce the damage by 25% and increase success rate by only 10%? oh, to combo with the 30% Sunder i guess. but... no, this shouldnt be the case. too easy for INT to get a kill this way.
      Terror 200 mana / reduce 100/75/50% of enemy armor / work up to 2 consecutive attacks took me quite sometime to understand the 100/75/50%. so u are asking for a reducing power on Terror per level? ouch, that is against how things go... i actually have a new idea here after reading yours. how about: Terror (400 mana) increase damage taken by enemy by 30/40/50/60% instead of reducing armor? that would be sort of powerful. maybe need rework on the %. but with this, Deso is a good item for AGI, and SF can stay with reducing armor effect but please make SF something like 30/40/50% only

      2. Honor
      Kill (more than 10% of total damage) + 1 points
      Kill (more than 20% of total damage) + 2 points
      Kill (more than 30% of total damage) + 3 points
      Kill (more than 40% of total damage) + 4 points
      Assisted Kill (more than 50% of total damage) + 2 points
      Assisted Kill (more then 25% of total damage) + 1 points
      i skip this, didnt study the honor system much, unless the game is going to rework to clan vs clan like i suggested. then only i think there is a need for me to study on the honor.

      3. Items
      Buriza-do Kyanon
      15000 gold + 120 Attack, has a 40% Critical Strike for 2x Damage
      Recipe 8000/center > Crystalys 4300 + Demon Edge 2700/center

      Crystalys
      4300 gold + 60 Attack, has a 10% Critical Strike for 2x Damage
      Receipe 2650/top > Broadsword 1000/btm+ Blades of Attack 750/center
      *Broadsword + 20 attack 1000/bottom
      *Blades of Attack+ 15 Attack 750/center
      didnt check my numbers in previous suggestion. if similar to mine shld be ok as i did some calculation back then.

      Monkey King Bar  
      6500 gold+ 80 Attack & True Strike: 40% attack damage cannot be missed.
      Demon Edge 2700/Center Javelin 1500/Top Recipe - Monkey King Bar 2300
      a reducing in the % is an easy fix for the overpowered MKB to be honest. but probably not the best one. price must increase to something matching the Butterfly, as it counter Butterfly.

      Divine Rapier
      9000gold + 150 Attack Non drop able
      Claymore 900/Bottom Sacred Relic 3300/Center Demon Edge 2700/Center Recipe - Divine Rapier 2100
      no comment. as u know i wish to get rid of DR.

      Cranium Basher
      4150 gold + 30 Attack + 10 Strength 30% chance to prevent enemy from teleporting for one cycle, remove effect upon death  
      Receipe 2000/top >Mithril Hammer 1000/center/Gauntlets of Orge Strength 850/center
      no comment as i didnt study this item much (never bought it)

      Euls Scepter of Divinity
      9000 gold +30 Intelligence, 2.5% Bonus mana regen per cycle
      Robe of the Magi 2700/Bottom Staff of Wizardry 5000/Top Recipe - Euls Scepter of Divinity 1300
      honestly, a no for buff on over popular item in game.

      The Butterfly  
      19750 gold+ 30 Attack + 30 Agility + 25% Evasion *Limited to one
      Quarterstaff 750/Top Eaglehorn 16000/Bottom Talisman of Evasion 2000/Center Recipe - The Butterfly 1000
      increase in evasion % due to the MKB, this i suggested so definitely agree.

      Diffusal Blade  
      10000 gold+ 20 Agility + 15 Intelligence & Feedback Ore: 200% Manaburn
      Robe of the Magi 2700/Bottom Blade of Alacrity 5000/Top Recipe - Diffusal Blade 2300
      same as my suggestion, reducing feeback from 250% to 200%. really i kinda like DB even when it is only 150% feedback. 200% is a good buff to my favorite orb. 250% is too much, too good!


      Part B
      Hero
      4. Streak heroes must go
      Rework of Pudge and Silencer uniqueness.
      a. Pudge
      20% magic resist, each str stat give 80 hp
      green light

      b. Silencer
      60% more magic damage to int hero.
      erm too much my dear. as you suggested 30% before seem good. maybe 30% more efficient on INT (better success rate and more damage)

      5. It is time for upgrades
      Str
      Alchemist
      Str x 8 attack to creep / str stat reduce 1.5 x attack from creep & 30% gold bonus from creeping (does not effect gold sharing)
      If Part C come into effect(refer below)
      Does 50% extra damage on creeping & 30% gold bonus from creeping (does not effect gold sharing)
      * Stack with 7. Midas 2.0 (refer below) = a total of 50% gold bonus (does not effect gold sharing)
      didnt read, look complicated

      Centaur Warchief
      10 permanent strength bonus with every increasing of level & 300% more return damage
      lets try with 8 STR and 250% more return damage and see how it goes first, shall we?

      Agi
      Ursa Warrior
      1% bonus damage based on hero's health points and increase 1% for each level, 12% max
      can we try... orb effect, 3/4/5% current health as damage?

      Gorgon
      Reduce 15% incoming damage (both magic & attack) & regenerate 1 mana for every 4 attacking damage point
      not sure but gorgon so far havent get my interest, nor this uniqueness.

      Bloodseeker
      25% extra attack damage to target with less than 40% of hp pool and restore 80% of hp based on enemy's hp pool when killed
      can try and i would say lets make it "full health restoration when make a kill (hero/creep)

      Stealth Assassin
      1/2/3 bonus attack damage for every 3 agility points & 10% evasion (cap 30% evasion)
      no harm trying

      Anti-Mage
      Mana burn based on 200% of attack damage & 30% spell resistance
      green light

      Shadow Fiend
      65% armor reduction against enemy
      as per my suggestion above. 30/40/50% or even lower, with the improvement on Terror will be neat.

      Int
      Obsidian Destroyer
      Every spell casting has 30% chance to restore 10% of maximum mana pool
      same as per my suggestion. good then, u are the OD player.

      Death Prophet
      Decrease 30% mana cost
      ok.

      Jakiro
      1.6 bonus magic damage for every intelligence point & 20% chance to prevent a target from teleport. Remove after cycle / death / Dispel Potion 300gold
      not bad to be honest
       
      6. Armor provide Magic Resistance
      Every 20 armor provide 1% Magic resistance
      Agi - cap at 15% (300 armor)
      *adjust Anti Mage magic resistance to base 20% as mention above.
      Int - cap at 10% (200 armor)
      Str - cap at 5% (100 armor)
      erm nope. don complicate armor and resist.

      Part C
      Creeps
      7. That is my creep
      Str and Int hero is now able to creep on their own. Creeps are no more shared among clan members.
      For str hero, str stat x 10 attack to creep / str stat reduce 1.5 x attack from creep
      For int hero, int stat x 10 attack to creep / int stat reduce 1.5 x attack from creep
      For agi hero, attack x 2 attack to creep / armor reduce 1.5 x attack from creep
      uncertain. if this is to fix the prob of STR and INT unable to creep, i still stick to my suggestion of making Enrage and spells able to use on creeps.

      8. Midas 2.0
      Midas 5000 gold - now instantly kill a creep below 65% give the user 20% gold bonus. (does not effect gold sharing)
      Recipe 3500/top > Glove of haste 1500/center
      Glove of haste 1500 gold/center - instantly kill a creep below 40%

      **Consider self creeping, agi is losing out because of this.
      Lets say agi creep for himself + 2 clan members
      Lv2 Forest Troll Berserker = 8 turns x4 creep x3 (own creep +2 clan members) = 96 turns
      Lv3 Satyr Soulstealer = 7 turns x4 creep x3 (own creep +2 clan members) = 84 turns
      Lv4 Centaur Outrunner = 10 turns x4 creep x3 (own creep +2 clan members) = 120 turns
      not sure about this as i look forward for STR and INT able to do their own creeping (come on, a hero cant kill a creep by his own, thats a potato, not a hero) so, i didnt really like the idea of Midas in this game so far.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 18, 2015, 08:39:21 AM
      erm erm not really very similar (oh ok, some are quite similar). your suggestion and my comment in RED
      Reply in GREEN
      Agree in Blue
      Adjustment make after posting

      Round 63 Suggestions
      For game balance by priority Part A -C, A being the most important.

      Part A
      1. Magic
      Sunder spell
      leaves target with minimum 40% of max hp instead of 50%
      too low. i would say current 45% is good. lowest i can go is 40%
      Adjusted to 40% since now str get about 12k-15k hp once int hit lv6
      Agree

      Reaper's Scythe
      Deals 0.3 damage per health point missing, increase success rate by 15%, require 1500 mana
      erm erm i tot it is underpowered? why further reduce the damage by 25% and increase success rate by only 10%? oh, to combo with the 30% Sunder i guess. but... no, this shouldnt be the case. too easy for INT to get a kill this way.
      Reason RS not being use due to High fizzle rate, bkb block & High mana requirement compare to Death Coil

      Terror
      200 mana / reduce 100/75/50% of enemy armor / work up to 2 consecutive attacks

      Howl
      400 mana / Does 30/40/50% Bonus Damage /Available to Agi Hero and work consecutive attacks

      took me quite sometime to understand the 100/75/50%. so u are asking for a reducing power on Terror per level? ouch, that is against how things go... i actually have a new idea here after reading yours. how about: Terror (400 mana) increase damage taken by enemy by 30/40/50/60% instead of reducing armor? that would be sort of powerful. maybe need rework on the %. but with this, Deso is a good item for AGI, and SF can stay with reducing armor effect but please make SF something like 30/40/50% only
       Offer two options to Agi, suggested above Terror and Howl, does not stack!

      Bounce Attack 400 mana / does not fizzle


      2. Honor
      Kill (more than 10% of total damage) + 1 points
      Kill (more than 20% of total damage) + 2 points
      Kill (more than 30% of total damage) + 3 points
      Kill (more than 40% of total damage) + 4 points
      Assisted Kill (more than 50% of total damage) + 2 points
      Assisted Kill (more then 25% of total damage) + 1 points
      i skip this, didnt study the honor system much, unless the game is going to rework to clan vs clan like i suggested. then only i think there is a need for me to study on the honor.
      This is to reduce the effect of multies last hitting

      3. Items
      Buriza-do Kyanon
      15000 gold + 120 Attack, has a 40% Critical Strike for 2x Damage
      Recipe 8000/center > Crystalys 4300 + Demon Edge 2700/center

      Crystalys
      4300 gold + 60 Attack, has a 10% Critical Strike for 2x Damage
      Receipe 2650/top > Broadsword 1000/btm+ Blades of Attack 750/center
      *Broadsword + 20 attack 1000/bottom
      *Blades of Attack+ 15 Attack 750/center
      didnt check my numbers in previous suggestion. if similar to mine shld be ok as i did some calculation back then.
      Currently Crystalys +25damage and 10% Critical Strike for 2x Damage is over price as burize scroll cost only 3200 gold for additional 27 damage & 20% critical strike
      Agree

      Monkey King Bar  
      10000 gold+ 100 Attack & True Strike: 40% attack damage cannot be missed.
      Demon Edge 2700/Center Javelin 1500/Top Javelin 1500/Top Recipe - Monkey King Bar 4300
      a reducing in the % is an easy fix for the overpowered MKB to be honest. but probably not the best one. price must increase to something matching the Butterfly, as it counter Butterfly.
      Increase the recipe and two Javelin

      Divine Rapier
      9000gold + 150 Attack Non drop able
      Claymore 900/Bottom Sacred Relic 3300/Center Demon Edge 2700/Center Recipe - Divine Rapier 2100
      no comment. as u know i wish to get rid of DR.
      Well until more items are introduce, it should on the same level as eul/sange/yasha

      Cranium Basher
      4150 gold + 30 Attack + 10 Strength 30% chance to prevent enemy from teleporting for one cycle, remove effect upon death  
      Receipe 2000/top >Mithril Hammer 1000/center/Gauntlets of Orge Strength 850/center
      no comment as i didnt study this item much (never bought it)
      Being use as an abuse by multies to remove one turn
      I believe Gm Dante experience it first hand last round from me when I bash his Nightstalker  at level 2 that was only having 1t/c

      Euls Scepter of Divinity
      9000 gold +30 Intelligence, 2.5% Bonus mana regen per cycle
      Robe of the Magi 2700/Bottom Staff of Wizardry 5000/Top Recipe - Euls Scepter of Divinity 1300
      honestly, a no for buff on over popular item in game.
      Then change it back to 9000 gold +30 Intelligence, 100 Bonus mana regen per cycle, the new change has become a nerf to int!
      for 2000gold they can get int item which give more damage/less fizzle and mana reg with their 20% bonus mana reg per cycle

      The Butterfly  
      16750 gold+ 30 Attack + 30 Agility + 25% Evasion *Limited to one
      Quarterstaff 750/Top Eaglehorn 13000/Bottom Talisman of Evasion 2000/Center Recipe - The Butterfly 1000
      increase in evasion % due to the MKB, this i suggested so definitely agree.
      Agree

      Diffusal Blade  
      10000 gold+ 20 Agility + 15 Intelligence & Feedback Ore: 200% Manaburn
      Robe of the Magi 2700/Bottom Blade of Alacrity 5000/Top Recipe - Diffusal Blade 2300
      same as my suggestion, reducing feeback from 250% to 200%. really i kinda like DB even when it is only 150% feedback. 200% is a good buff to my favorite orb. 250% is too much, too good!
      Agree

      Part B
      Hero
      4. Streak heroes must go
      Rework of Pudge and Silencer uniqueness.
      a. Pudge
      20% magic resist, each str stat give 80 hp
      green light
      Agree

      b. Silencer
      60% more magic damage to int hero.
      erm too much my dear. as you suggested 30% before seem good. maybe 30% more efficient on INT (better success rate and more damage)
      Int have a natural 50% magic resistance, and also there is hood, so in actual 60% more magic damage = after magic resistance is only 30%, same as before
      Agree


      5. It is time for upgrades
      Str
      Alchemist
      Str x 8 attack to creep / str stat reduce 1.5 x attack from creep & 20% gold bonus from creeping (does not effect gold sharing)
      If Part C come into effect(refer below)
      Does 50% extra damage on creeping & 30% gold bonus from creeping (does not effect gold sharing)
      * Stack with 7. Midas 2.0 (refer below) = a total of 50% gold bonus (does not effect gold sharing)
      didnt read, look complicated
      Summary, alchemist can kill own creep/ give creep to team mate. When he kill his own creep, he get bonus gold. Adjusted to 20% due to current system give 80% gold to killer

      Centaur Warchief
      8 permanent strength bonus with every increasing of level & 250% more return damage
      lets try with 8 STR and 250% more return damage and see how it goes first, shall we?
      Agree

      Agi
      Ursa Warrior
      1% bonus damage based on hero's health points and increase 1% for each level, 12% max
      can we try... orb effect, 3/4/5% current health as damage?
      As mention before 3/4/5% of own hp is over powered at lv one

      Gorgon
      Reduce 15% incoming damage (both magic & attack) & regenerate 1 mana for every 4 attacking damage point
      not sure but gorgon so far havent get my interest, nor this uniqueness.

      Bloodseeker
      25% extra attack damage to target with less than 40% of hp pool and restore 80% of hp based on enemy's hp pool when killed
      can try and i would say lets make it "full health restoration when make a kill (hero/creep)
      The health restoration part is good during solo kill or int don't have mana to heal but a full hp reg might be too much.

      Stealth Assassin
      1/2/3 bonus attack damage for every 3 agility points & 10% evasion (cap 30% evasion)
      no harm trying
      Agree

      Anti-Mage
      Mana burn based on 200% of attack damage & 30% spell resistance
      green light
      Agree

      Shadow Fiend
      65% armor reduction against enemy
      as per my suggestion above. 30/40/50% or even lower, with the improvement on Terror will be neat.
      65% at the moment to work with my suggested terror of 100/75/50
      50% armor reduction against enemy if Howl is introduce

      Int
      Obsidian Destroyer
      Every spell casting has 30% chance to restore 10% of maximum mana pool
      same as per my suggestion. good then, u are the OD player.
      Yes, but please change Eul back to 9000 gold +30 Intelligence, 100 Bonus mana regen per cycle
      N/B 10% of maximum mana pool scale with max mana pool, if you have 3000 max mana, you only reg 300mana, if you have 8000 max mana, you reg 800mana
      Agree

      Death Prophet
      Decrease 30% mana cost
      ok.
      Agree

      Jakiro
      1.6 bonus magic damage for every intelligence point & 20% chance to prevent a target from teleport. Remove after cycle / death / Dispel Potion 300gold
      not bad to be honest
      Agree
       
      6. Armor provide Magic Resistance
      Every 20 armor provide 1% Magic resistance
      Agi - cap at 15% (300 armor)
      *adjust Anti Mage magic resistance to base 20% as mention above.
      Int - cap at 10% (200 armor)
      Str - cap at 5% (100 armor)
      erm nope. don complicate armor and resist.
      In dota, armor does give some magic resistance. That is how agi survive in dota

      7.Misc
      Attack effectiveness from items starts at 80% (from 70%) for Agility heroes compared to 50% for others

      Part C
      Creeps
      8. That is my creep
      Str and Int hero is now able to creep on their own. Creeps are no more shared among clan members.
      For str hero, str stat x 10 attack to creep / str stat reduce 1.5 x attack from creep
      For int hero, int stat x 10 attack to creep / int stat reduce 1.5 x attack from creep
      For agi hero, attack x 2 attack to creep / armor reduce 1.5 x attack from creep
      uncertain. if this is to fix the prob of STR and INT unable to creep, i still stick to my suggestion of making Enrage and spells able to use on creeps.
      Added new skill Howl for Agi, which would make sense for your suggestion to use spell on creeps.

      9. Midas 2.0
      Midas 5000 gold - now instantly kill a creep below 65% give the user 20% gold bonus. (does not effect gold sharing)
      Recipe 3500/top > Glove of haste 1500/center
      Glove of haste 1500 gold/center - instantly kill a creep below 40%

      **Consider self creeping, agi is losing out because of this.
      Lets say agi creep for himself + 2 clan members
      Lv2 Forest Troll Berserker = 8 turns x4 creep x3 (own creep +2 clan members) = 96 turns
      Lv3 Satyr Soulstealer = 7 turns x4 creep x3 (own creep +2 clan members) = 84 turns
      Lv4 Centaur Outrunner = 10 turns x4 creep x3 (own creep +2 clan members) = 120 turns
      not sure about this as i look forward for STR and INT able to do their own creeping (come on, a hero cant kill a creep by his own, thats a potato, not a hero) so, i didnt really like the idea of Midas in this game so far.
      Midas idea is to sacrifice some early power to gain better effect in the long run, from creep gold bonus  and saving turns when creeping.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zHaKkAs on September 18, 2015, 09:29:04 AM
      erm erm not really very similar (oh ok, some are quite similar). your suggestion and my comment in RED
      Reply in GREEN
      Agree in Blue

      Round 63 Suggestions
      For game balance by priority Part A -C, A being the most important.

      Part A
      1. Magic
      Sunder spell leaves target with minimum 40% of max hp instead of 50%
      too low. i would say current 45% is good. lowest i can go is 40%
      Adjusted to 40% since now str get about 12k-15k hp once int hit lv6
      Agree

      Reaper's Scythe - Deals 0.3 damage per health point missing, increase success rate by 10%, require 2000 mana
      erm erm i tot it is underpowered? why further reduce the damage by 25% and increase success rate by only 10%? oh, to combo with the 30% Sunder i guess. but... no, this shouldnt be the case. too easy for INT to get a kill this way.
      Deals 0.3 damage per health point missing, increase success rate by 15%, require 1500 mana
      Reason RS not being use due to High fizzle rate, bkb block & High mana requirement compare to Death Coil

      Terror 200 mana / reduce 100/75/50% of enemy armor / work up to 2 consecutive attacks
      took me quite sometime to understand the 100/75/50%. so u are asking for a reducing power on Terror per level? ouch, that is against how things go... i actually have a new idea here after reading yours. how about: Terror (400 mana) increase damage taken by enemy by 30/40/50/60% instead of reducing armor? that would be sort of powerful. maybe need rework on the %. but with this, Deso is a good item for AGI, and SF can stay with reducing armor effect but please make SF something like 30/40/50% only
      Yours will be a better idea in the long run however I believe the coding will take time, so a temporary solution will be my suggestion.

      2. Honor
      Kill (more than 10% of total damage) + 1 points
      Kill (more than 20% of total damage) + 2 points
      Kill (more than 30% of total damage) + 3 points
      Kill (more than 40% of total damage) + 4 points
      Assisted Kill (more than 50% of total damage) + 2 points
      Assisted Kill (more then 25% of total damage) + 1 points
      i skip this, didnt study the honor system much, unless the game is going to rework to clan vs clan like i suggested. then only i think there is a need for me to study on the honor.
      This is to reduce the effect of multies last hitting

      3. Items
      Buriza-do Kyanon
      15000 gold + 120 Attack, has a 40% Critical Strike for 2x Damage
      Recipe 8000/center > Crystalys 4300 + Demon Edge 2700/center

      Crystalys
      4300 gold + 60 Attack, has a 10% Critical Strike for 2x Damage
      Receipe 2650/top > Broadsword 1000/btm+ Blades of Attack 750/center
      *Broadsword + 20 attack 1000/bottom
      *Blades of Attack+ 15 Attack 750/center
      didnt check my numbers in previous suggestion. if similar to mine shld be ok as i did some calculation back then.
      Currently Crystalys +25damage and 10% Critical Strike for 2x Damage is over price as burize scroll cost only 3200 gold for additional 27 damage & 20% critical strike
      Agree

      Monkey King Bar  
      6500 gold+ 80 Attack & True Strike: 40% attack damage cannot be missed.
      Demon Edge 2700/Center Javelin 1500/Top Recipe - Monkey King Bar 2300
      a reducing in the % is an easy fix for the overpowered MKB to be honest. but probably not the best one. price must increase to something matching the Butterfly, as it counter Butterfly.
      Yes might be good to increase the recipe or Javelin price (more damage too)

      Divine Rapier
      9000gold + 150 Attack Non drop able
      Claymore 900/Bottom Sacred Relic 3300/Center Demon Edge 2700/Center Recipe - Divine Rapier 2100
      no comment. as u know i wish to get rid of DR.
      Well until more items are introduce, it should on the same level as eul/sange/yasha

      Cranium Basher
      4150 gold + 30 Attack + 10 Strength 30% chance to prevent enemy from teleporting for one cycle, remove effect upon death  
      Receipe 2000/top >Mithril Hammer 1000/center/Gauntlets of Orge Strength 850/center
      no comment as i didnt study this item much (never bought it)
      Being use as an abuse by multies to remove one turn
      I believe Gm Dante experience it first hand last round from me when I bash his Nightstalker  at level 1 that was only having 1t/c

      Euls Scepter of Divinity
      9000 gold +30 Intelligence, 2.5% Bonus mana regen per cycle
      Robe of the Magi 2700/Bottom Staff of Wizardry 5000/Top Recipe - Euls Scepter of Divinity 1300
      honestly, a no for buff on over popular item in game.
      Then change it back to 9000 gold +30 Intelligence, 100 Bonus mana regen per cycle, the new change has become a nerf to int!
      for 2000gold they can get int item which give more damage/less fizzle and mana reg with their 20% bonus mana reg per cycle

      The Butterfly  
      19750 gold+ 30 Attack + 30 Agility + 25% Evasion *Limited to one
      Quarterstaff 750/Top Eaglehorn 16000/Bottom Talisman of Evasion 2000/Center Recipe - The Butterfly 1000
      increase in evasion % due to the MKB, this i suggested so definitely agree.
      Agree

      Diffusal Blade  
      10000 gold+ 20 Agility + 15 Intelligence & Feedback Ore: 200% Manaburn
      Robe of the Magi 2700/Bottom Blade of Alacrity 5000/Top Recipe - Diffusal Blade 2300
      same as my suggestion, reducing feeback from 250% to 200%. really i kinda like DB even when it is only 150% feedback. 200% is a good buff to my favorite orb. 250% is too much, too good!
      Agree

      Part B
      Hero
      4. Streak heroes must go
      Rework of Pudge and Silencer uniqueness.
      a. Pudge
      20% magic resist, each str stat give 80 hp
      green light
      Agree

      b. Silencer
      60% more magic damage to int hero.
      erm too much my dear. as you suggested 30% before seem good. maybe 30% more efficient on INT (better success rate and more damage)
      Int have a natural 50% magic resistance, and also there is hood, so in actual 60% more magic damage = after magic resistance is only 30%, same as before
      Agree


      5. It is time for upgrades
      Str
      Alchemist
      Str x 8 attack to creep / str stat reduce 1.5 x attack from creep & 20% gold bonus from creeping (does not effect gold sharing)
      If Part C come into effect(refer below)
      Does 50% extra damage on creeping & 30% gold bonus from creeping (does not effect gold sharing)
      * Stack with 7. Midas 2.0 (refer below) = a total of 50% gold bonus (does not effect gold sharing)
      didnt read, look complicated
      Summary, alchemist can kill own creep/ give creep to team mate. When he kill his own creep, he get bonus gold. Adjusted to 20% due to current system give 80% gold to killer

      Centaur Warchief
      10 permanent strength bonus with every increasing of level & 300% more return damage
      lets try with 8 STR and 250% more return damage and see how it goes first, shall we?
      Agree

      Agi
      Ursa Warrior
      1% bonus damage based on hero's health points and increase 1% for each level, 12% max
      can we try... orb effect, 3/4/5% current health as damage?
      As mention before 3/4/5% of own hp is over powered at lv one

      Gorgon
      Reduce 15% incoming damage (both magic & attack) & regenerate 1 mana for every 4 attacking damage point
      not sure but gorgon so far havent get my interest, nor this uniqueness.

      Bloodseeker
      25% extra attack damage to target with less than 40% of hp pool and restore 80% of hp based on enemy's hp pool when killed
      can try and i would say lets make it "full health restoration when make a kill (hero/creep)
      The health restoration part is good during solo kill or int don't have mana to heal

      Stealth Assassin
      1/2/3 bonus attack damage for every 3 agility points & 10% evasion (cap 30% evasion)
      Agree

      Anti-Mage
      Mana burn based on 200% of attack damage & 30% spell resistance
      Agree

      Shadow Fiend
      65% armor reduction against enemy
      as per my suggestion above. 30/40/50% or even lower, with the improvement on Terror will be neat.
      65% at the moment to work with my suggested terror of 100/75/50

      Int
      Obsidian Destroyer
      Every spell casting has 30% chance to restore 10% of maximum mana pool
      same as per my suggestion. good then, u are the OD player.
      Yes, but please change Eul back to 9000 gold +30 Intelligence, 100 Bonus mana regen per cycle
      N/B 10% of maximum mana pool scale with max mana pool, if you have 3000 max mana, you only reg 300mana, if you have 8000 max mana, you reg 800mana
      Agree

      Death Prophet
      Decrease 30% mana cost
      ok.
      Agree

      Jakiro
      1.6 bonus magic damage for every intelligence point & 20% chance to prevent a target from teleport. Remove after cycle / death / Dispel Potion 300gold
      not bad to be honest
      Agree
       
      6. Armor provide Magic Resistance
      Every 20 armor provide 1% Magic resistance
      Agi - cap at 15% (300 armor)
      *adjust Anti Mage magic resistance to base 20% as mention above.
      Int - cap at 10% (200 armor)
      Str - cap at 5% (100 armor)
      erm nope. don complicate armor and resist.
      In dota, armor does give some magic resistance. That is how agi survive in dota

      Part C
      Creeps
      7. That is my creep
      Str and Int hero is now able to creep on their own. Creeps are no more shared among clan members.
      For str hero, str stat x 10 attack to creep / str stat reduce 1.5 x attack from creep
      For int hero, int stat x 10 attack to creep / int stat reduce 1.5 x attack from creep
      For agi hero, attack x 2 attack to creep / armor reduce 1.5 x attack from creep
      uncertain. if this is to fix the prob of STR and INT unable to creep, i still stick to my suggestion of making Enrage and spells able to use on creeps.
      well agi dont use terror on creeps, so why would str and int have to use mana to kill creeps? just to balance between all class

      8. Midas 2.0
      Midas 5000 gold - now instantly kill a creep below 65% give the user 20% gold bonus. (does not effect gold sharing)
      Recipe 3500/top > Glove of haste 1500/center
      Glove of haste 1500 gold/center - instantly kill a creep below 40%

      **Consider self creeping, agi is losing out because of this.
      Lets say agi creep for himself + 2 clan members
      Lv2 Forest Troll Berserker = 8 turns x4 creep x3 (own creep +2 clan members) = 96 turns
      Lv3 Satyr Soulstealer = 7 turns x4 creep x3 (own creep +2 clan members) = 84 turns
      Lv4 Centaur Outrunner = 10 turns x4 creep x3 (own creep +2 clan members) = 120 turns
      not sure about this as i look forward for STR and INT able to do their own creeping (come on, a hero cant kill a creep by his own, thats a potato, not a hero) so, i didnt really like the idea of Midas in this game so far.
      [/quote]
      Agreed to both of you...nice suggestions but I think if DR gives 150 damage only and at lvl 1 agi has 70% attack effectiveness then 150 will reduce to 105 damage and this is very low so better keep it 200 or else give agi's 100% attack effectiveness at lvl 1...
      I think it's better to remove attack effectiveness for all classes...


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 18, 2015, 10:37:32 AM
      @zHaKkAs adjusted my post to put agi effective to 80%, maybe in the near future it will be 100%


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: XwatermelonX on September 18, 2015, 12:59:40 PM
      @LOD, kindly check whether is there a bug when AGI/STR have diffusal blade, attack INT (in this case not cons attack, 1 by 1 turn to attack). INT hero still able to revive with Aegis. Would like to know in what circumstances this can be happen?

      Thanks  ;D


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: torque on September 18, 2015, 01:38:39 PM
      @LOD, kindly check whether is there a bug when AGI/STR have diffusal blade, attack INT (in this case not cons attack, 1 by 1 turn to attack). INT hero still able to revive with Aegis. Would like to know in what circumstances this can be happen?

      Thanks  ;D

      Wasn't it observed before? Diffusal Blade will not burn mana if the damage is lethal. Death happens before mana burn. Maybe I am wrong.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: HaTE on September 18, 2015, 02:57:59 PM
      I just wonder, how a guy who doesn't understand balance between simple things like colours in his thread (which he keeps pasting in every other thread and in every other post), would bring "balance" in the game ;D. I'm just saying...

      1 - I don't agree that any hero should have flat fixed % of uniqueness starting from Level 1. It should improve as the hero gains levels.

      2 - MKB wasn't necessary. In early rounds, one of the biggest issue was that BKB can be disabled while Butter cannot be disabled. This fun round it's quite the opposite. BKB can't be disabled but Butter can be disabled and you guys can see the results yourself.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 18, 2015, 04:59:04 PM
      erm erm not really very similar (oh ok, some are quite similar). your suggestion and my comment in RED
      Reply in GREEN
      Agree in Blue
      Adjustment make after posting

      Round 63 Suggestions
      For game balance by priority Part A -C, A being the most important.

      Part A
      1. Magic
      Sunder spell
      leaves target with minimum 40% of max hp instead of 50%
      too low. i would say current 45% is good. lowest i can go is 40%
      Adjusted to 40% since now str get about 12k-15k hp once int hit lv6
      Agree

      Reaper's Scythe
      Deals 0.3 damage per health point missing, increase success rate by 15%, require 1500 mana
      erm erm i tot it is underpowered? why further reduce the damage by 25% and increase success rate by only 10%? oh, to combo with the 30% Sunder i guess. but... no, this shouldnt be the case. too easy for INT to get a kill this way.
      Reason RS not being use due to High fizzle rate, bkb block & High mana requirement compare to Death Coil

      Terror
      200 mana / reduce 100/75/50% of enemy armor / work up to 2 consecutive attacks

      Howl
      400 mana / Does 30/40/50% Bonus Damage /Available to Agi Hero and work consecutive attacks

      took me quite sometime to understand the 100/75/50%. so u are asking for a reducing power on Terror per level? ouch, that is against how things go... i actually have a new idea here after reading yours. how about: Terror (400 mana) increase damage taken by enemy by 30/40/50/60% instead of reducing armor? that would be sort of powerful. maybe need rework on the %. but with this, Deso is a good item for AGI, and SF can stay with reducing armor effect but please make SF something like 30/40/50% only
       Offer two options to Agi, suggested above Terror and Howl, does not stack!

      Bounce Attack 400 mana / does not fizzle


      2. Honor
      Kill (more than 10% of total damage) + 1 points
      Kill (more than 20% of total damage) + 2 points
      Kill (more than 30% of total damage) + 3 points
      Kill (more than 40% of total damage) + 4 points
      Assisted Kill (more than 50% of total damage) + 2 points
      Assisted Kill (more then 25% of total damage) + 1 points
      i skip this, didnt study the honor system much, unless the game is going to rework to clan vs clan like i suggested. then only i think there is a need for me to study on the honor.
      This is to reduce the effect of multies last hitting

      3. Items
      Buriza-do Kyanon
      15000 gold + 120 Attack, has a 40% Critical Strike for 2x Damage
      Recipe 8000/center > Crystalys 4300 + Demon Edge 2700/center

      Crystalys
      4300 gold + 60 Attack, has a 10% Critical Strike for 2x Damage
      Receipe 2650/top > Broadsword 1000/btm+ Blades of Attack 750/center
      *Broadsword + 20 attack 1000/bottom
      *Blades of Attack+ 15 Attack 750/center
      didnt check my numbers in previous suggestion. if similar to mine shld be ok as i did some calculation back then.
      Currently Crystalys +25damage and 10% Critical Strike for 2x Damage is over price as burize scroll cost only 3200 gold for additional 27 damage & 20% critical strike
      Agree

      Monkey King Bar  
      10000 gold+ 100 Attack & True Strike: 40% attack damage cannot be missed.
      Demon Edge 2700/Center Javelin 1500/Top Javelin 1500/Top Recipe - Monkey King Bar 4300
      a reducing in the % is an easy fix for the overpowered MKB to be honest. but probably not the best one. price must increase to something matching the Butterfly, as it counter Butterfly.
      Increase the recipe and two Javelin

      Divine Rapier
      9000gold + 150 Attack Non drop able
      Claymore 900/Bottom Sacred Relic 3300/Center Demon Edge 2700/Center Recipe - Divine Rapier 2100
      no comment. as u know i wish to get rid of DR.
      Well until more items are introduce, it should on the same level as eul/sange/yasha

      Cranium Basher
      4150 gold + 30 Attack + 10 Strength 30% chance to prevent enemy from teleporting for one cycle, remove effect upon death  
      Receipe 2000/top >Mithril Hammer 1000/center/Gauntlets of Orge Strength 850/center
      no comment as i didnt study this item much (never bought it)
      Being use as an abuse by multies to remove one turn
      I believe Gm Dante experience it first hand last round from me when I bash his Nightstalker  at level 2 that was only having 1t/c

      Euls Scepter of Divinity
      9000 gold +30 Intelligence, 2.5% Bonus mana regen per cycle
      Robe of the Magi 2700/Bottom Staff of Wizardry 5000/Top Recipe - Euls Scepter of Divinity 1300
      honestly, a no for buff on over popular item in game.
      Then change it back to 9000 gold +30 Intelligence, 100 Bonus mana regen per cycle, the new change has become a nerf to int!
      for 2000gold they can get int item which give more damage/less fizzle and mana reg with their 20% bonus mana reg per cycle

      The Butterfly  
      16750 gold+ 30 Attack + 30 Agility + 25% Evasion *Limited to one
      Quarterstaff 750/Top Eaglehorn 13000/Bottom Talisman of Evasion 2000/Center Recipe - The Butterfly 1000
      increase in evasion % due to the MKB, this i suggested so definitely agree.
      Agree

      Diffusal Blade  
      10000 gold+ 20 Agility + 15 Intelligence & Feedback Ore: 200% Manaburn
      Robe of the Magi 2700/Bottom Blade of Alacrity 5000/Top Recipe - Diffusal Blade 2300
      same as my suggestion, reducing feeback from 250% to 200%. really i kinda like DB even when it is only 150% feedback. 200% is a good buff to my favorite orb. 250% is too much, too good!
      Agree

      Part B
      Hero
      4. Streak heroes must go
      Rework of Pudge and Silencer uniqueness.
      a. Pudge
      20% magic resist, each str stat give 80 hp
      green light
      Agree

      b. Silencer
      60% more magic damage to int hero.
      erm too much my dear. as you suggested 30% before seem good. maybe 30% more efficient on INT (better success rate and more damage)
      Int have a natural 50% magic resistance, and also there is hood, so in actual 60% more magic damage = after magic resistance is only 30%, same as before
      Agree


      5. It is time for upgrades
      Str
      Alchemist
      Str x 8 attack to creep / str stat reduce 1.5 x attack from creep & 20% gold bonus from creeping (does not effect gold sharing)
      If Part C come into effect(refer below)
      Does 50% extra damage on creeping & 30% gold bonus from creeping (does not effect gold sharing)
      * Stack with 7. Midas 2.0 (refer below) = a total of 50% gold bonus (does not effect gold sharing)
      didnt read, look complicated
      Summary, alchemist can kill own creep/ give creep to team mate. When he kill his own creep, he get bonus gold. Adjusted to 20% due to current system give 80% gold to killer

      Centaur Warchief
      8 permanent strength bonus with every increasing of level & 250% more return damage
      lets try with 8 STR and 250% more return damage and see how it goes first, shall we?
      Agree

      Agi
      Ursa Warrior
      1% bonus damage based on hero's health points and increase 1% for each level, 12% max
      can we try... orb effect, 3/4/5% current health as damage?
      As mention before 3/4/5% of own hp is over powered at lv one

      Gorgon
      Reduce 15% incoming damage (both magic & attack) & regenerate 1 mana for every 4 attacking damage point
      not sure but gorgon so far havent get my interest, nor this uniqueness.

      Bloodseeker
      25% extra attack damage to target with less than 40% of hp pool and restore 80% of hp based on enemy's hp pool when killed
      can try and i would say lets make it "full health restoration when make a kill (hero/creep)
      The health restoration part is good during solo kill or int don't have mana to heal but a full hp reg might be too much.

      Stealth Assassin
      1/2/3 bonus attack damage for every 3 agility points & 10% evasion (cap 30% evasion)
      no harm trying
      Agree

      Anti-Mage
      Mana burn based on 200% of attack damage & 30% spell resistance
      green light
      Agree

      Shadow Fiend
      65% armor reduction against enemy
      as per my suggestion above. 30/40/50% or even lower, with the improvement on Terror will be neat.
      65% at the moment to work with my suggested terror of 100/75/50
      50% armor reduction against enemy if Howl is introduce

      Int
      Obsidian Destroyer
      Every spell casting has 30% chance to restore 10% of maximum mana pool
      same as per my suggestion. good then, u are the OD player.
      Yes, but please change Eul back to 9000 gold +30 Intelligence, 100 Bonus mana regen per cycle
      N/B 10% of maximum mana pool scale with max mana pool, if you have 3000 max mana, you only reg 300mana, if you have 8000 max mana, you reg 800mana
      Agree

      Death Prophet
      Decrease 30% mana cost
      ok.
      Agree

      Jakiro
      1.6 bonus magic damage for every intelligence point & 20% chance to prevent a target from teleport. Remove after cycle / death / Dispel Potion 300gold
      not bad to be honest
      Agree
       
      6. Armor provide Magic Resistance
      Every 20 armor provide 1% Magic resistance
      Agi - cap at 15% (300 armor)
      *adjust Anti Mage magic resistance to base 20% as mention above.
      Int - cap at 10% (200 armor)
      Str - cap at 5% (100 armor)
      erm nope. don complicate armor and resist.
      In dota, armor does give some magic resistance. That is how agi survive in dota

      7.Misc
      Attack effectiveness from items starts at 80% (from 70%) for Agility heroes compared to 50% for others

      Part C
      Creeps
      8. That is my creep
      Str and Int hero is now able to creep on their own. Creeps are no more shared among clan members.
      For str hero, str stat x 10 attack to creep / str stat reduce 1.5 x attack from creep
      For int hero, int stat x 10 attack to creep / int stat reduce 1.5 x attack from creep
      For agi hero, attack x 2 attack to creep / armor reduce 1.5 x attack from creep
      uncertain. if this is to fix the prob of STR and INT unable to creep, i still stick to my suggestion of making Enrage and spells able to use on creeps.
      Added new skill Howl for Agi, which would make sense for your suggestion to use spell on creeps.

      9. Midas 2.0
      Midas 5000 gold - now instantly kill a creep below 65% give the user 20% gold bonus. (does not effect gold sharing)
      Recipe 3500/top > Glove of haste 1500/center
      Glove of haste 1500 gold/center - instantly kill a creep below 40%

      **Consider self creeping, agi is losing out because of this.
      Lets say agi creep for himself + 2 clan members
      Lv2 Forest Troll Berserker = 8 turns x4 creep x3 (own creep +2 clan members) = 96 turns
      Lv3 Satyr Soulstealer = 7 turns x4 creep x3 (own creep +2 clan members) = 84 turns
      Lv4 Centaur Outrunner = 10 turns x4 creep x3 (own creep +2 clan members) = 120 turns
      not sure about this as i look forward for STR and INT able to do their own creeping (come on, a hero cant kill a creep by his own, thats a potato, not a hero) so, i didnt really like the idea of Midas in this game so far.
      Midas idea is to sacrifice some early power to gain better effect in the long run, from creep gold bonus  and saving turns when creeping.

      important notice:
      1. i would really like Sunder to stick at 45% for next round. only reduce to 40% IF it really need to get buff.
      2. RS - i would suggest keep the 0.4x damage and give it a better success rate, thats all.
      3. instead of "Howl", i suggest make it call "Fervor" (skill of Troll), and has increased damage of 20/30/40% increased damage, 400 mana, half effective on creeps
      4. ursa 3/4/5% i put it as "current health" instead of max health, and also making it an orb effect meaning Ursa cant get other orb. this is to balance the effectiveness of it.
      5. in dota, armor DOES NOT give resist.
      6. silencer 60% more spell damage on INT issue: if an INT does get HoD after the changes (30% resist instead of 40%), that will be 65% resist (which i doubt much INT get HoD). 160% spell damage minus 65% resist = 56% spell damage on them. lets compare to STR with HoD, 100% spell damage minus 30% = 70%. 56% vs 70%, while STR has tons of HP and INT has peanut HP. Silencer will kill ALL INT like a titan. And even worse if the INT does not get HoD, 160% spell damage minus 50% resist = 80% spell damage. I believe 2-3 turns will get you a kill. in short, 60% is too much to be honest. maybe a 40% will be quite strong. 140% minus 50% = 70% still kinda crazy damage on INT with low hp pool. spells break Mana Shield as you told me... maybe... stick to 30%?
      7. item attack effectiveness: why not just make all 3 classes get 80% effectiveness? i would really love to see STR/INT build some attack! that will be UNIQUE and FUN =)
      8. Desolator has to be reworked due to Fervor, giving it 30% armor reduction and no longer deal extra damage base on enemy Armor. Your Armor shall never work against you, this is wrong.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 18, 2015, 05:01:00 PM
      I just wonder, how a guy who doesn't understand balance between simple things like colours in his thread (which he keeps pasting in every other thread and in every other post), would bring "balance" in the game ;D. I'm just saying...

      1 - I don't agree that any hero should have flat fixed % of uniqueness starting from Level 1. It should improve as the hero gains levels.

      2 - MKB wasn't necessary. In early rounds, one of the biggest issue was that BKB can be disabled while Butter cannot be disabled. This fun round it's quite the opposite. BKB can't be disabled but Butter can be disabled and you guys can see the results yourself.

      are u trying to start an unneeded fight/argument?
      and i dont agree with your disagreement.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 18, 2015, 07:32:00 PM
      Reply in Green

      important notice:
      1. i would really like Sunder to stick at 45% for next round. only reduce to 40% IF it really need to get buff.
      Agree

      2. RS - i would suggest keep the 0.4x damage and give it a better success rate, thats all.
      Agree, increase by 15% success rate as mention

      3. instead of "Howl", i suggest make it call "Fervor" (skill of Troll), and has increased damage of 20/30/40% increased damage, 400 mana, half effective on creeps
      Agree

      4. ursa 3/4/5% i put it as "current health" instead of max health, and also making it an orb effect meaning Ursa cant get other orb. this is to balance the effectiveness of it.
      Ok let me do the maths one more time.
      Level 1 Ursa: Hp 1690*3% = 50.7 damage bonus / no mana required / i got 24/7 healer standby
      Level 2 Ursa: Hp 1880 + 1 belt, 2720*4% = 108.8 damage bonus / no mana required / i got 24/7 healer standby
      Level 3 Ursa: Hp 2910 + 1bkb, 4030*5% = 201.5 damage bonus / no mana required / i got 24/7 healer standby

      5. in dota, armor DOES NOT give resist.
      6. silencer 60% more spell damage on INT issue: if an INT does get HoD after the changes (30% resist instead of 40%), that will be 65% resist (which i doubt much INT get HoD). 160% spell damage minus 65% resist = 56% spell damage on them. lets compare to STR with HoD, 100% spell damage minus 30% = 70%. 56% vs 70%, while STR has tons of HP and INT has peanut HP. Silencer will kill ALL INT like a titan. And even worse if the INT does not get HoD, 160% spell damage minus 50% resist = 80% spell damage. I believe 2-3 turns will get you a kill. in short, 60% is too much to be honest. maybe a 40% will be quite strong. 140% minus 50% = 70% still kinda crazy damage on INT with low hp pool. spells break Mana Shield as you told me... maybe... stick to 30%?
      Maths
      Death coil does 1000 damage to str / no resistance
      Death coil does 700 damage to agi
      Death coil does 500 damage to int
      Silencer Death coil does 800 damage to int
      *formula is 1000*160%=1600*50%=800 damage
      after one hood at 30% = 560 damage

      7. item attack effectiveness: why not just make all 3 classes get 80% effectiveness? i would really love to see STR/INT build some attack! that will be UNIQUE and FUN =)
      Agree

      8. Desolator has to be reworked due to Fervor, giving it 30% armor reduction and no longer deal extra damage base on enemy Armor. Your Armor shall never work against you, this is wrong.
      Agree


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 18, 2015, 07:51:48 PM
      Ursa, yes probably very nice damage in level 1-3. but it stuck there and no orb for him.

      Death Coil normally dont do 1000. its more like 1500. 1500x160%x50%=1200. With HoD, 840. That kind of damage can kill an INT in 3-4 turns.
      Silencer should be a good killer on INT but maybe not that good.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zHaKkAs on September 18, 2015, 08:23:54 PM
      Ursa, yes probably very nice damage in level 1-3. but it stuck there and no orb for him.

      Death Coil normally dont do 1000. its more like 1500. 1500x160%x50%=1200. With HoD, 840. That kind of damage can kill an INT in 3-4 turns.
      Silencer should be a good killer on INT but maybe not that good.
      Then make it 30% extra magic damage on int and 70 mana for every kill...just like pudge...


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 18, 2015, 10:39:40 PM
      Ursa, yes probably very nice damage in level 1-3. but it stuck there and no orb for him.

      Death Coil normally dont do 1000. its more like 1500. 1500x160%x50%=1200. With HoD, 840. That kind of damage can kill an INT in 3-4 turns.
      Silencer should be a good killer on INT but maybe not that good.
      Then make it 30% extra magic damage on int and 70 mana for every kill...just like pudge...

      maybe 30% extra spell damage and effectiveness on INT. the effectiveness should be better than the mana.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 19, 2015, 10:12:21 AM
      @Reply

      Ursa - We should balance Ursa through out his full game play, and early level 1 extra 50 damage is not a joke, even SA don't gain that much bonus.
      * there is also the  suggested skill of Fervor for agi

      Silencer - 30% extra spell damage on INT and gain back 10% max mana pool after each kill
      * A int killer and some mana recover and similar to bloodseeker after each kill gain back hp or Obsidian mana recover.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zHaKkAs on September 19, 2015, 02:32:17 PM
      @Reply

      Ursa - We should balance Ursa through out his full game play, and early level 1 extra 50 damage is not a joke, even SA don't gain that much bonus.
      * there is also the  suggested skill of Fervor for agi

      Silencer - 30% extra spell damage on INT and gain back 10% max mana pool after each kill
      * A int killer and some mana recover and similar to bloodseeker after each kill gain back hp or Obsidian mana recover.
      For silencer we can use silence as well i. e . Int can not cast more tha  5 spells on him in a cycle then his Uniqueness will be 30% more magic damage on int and int cannot cast more than 5 spells in a cycle


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 19, 2015, 04:50:14 PM
      @Reply

      Ursa - We should balance Ursa through out his full game play, and early level 1 extra 50 damage is not a joke, even SA don't gain that much bonus.
      * there is also the  suggested skill of Fervor for agi

      Silencer - 30% extra spell damage on INT and gain back 10% max mana pool after each kill
      * A int killer and some mana recover and similar to bloodseeker after each kill gain back hp or Obsidian mana recover.
      For silencer we can use silence as well i. e . Int can not cast more tha  5 spells on him in a cycle then his Uniqueness will be 30% more magic damage on int and int cannot cast more than 5 spells in a cycle
      I believe giving him a source of extra mana is better, as most int problem is mana usage


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zHaKkAs on September 19, 2015, 08:21:18 PM
      @Reply

      Ursa - We should balance Ursa through out his full game play, and early level 1 extra 50 damage is not a joke, even SA don't gain that much bonus.
      * there is also the  suggested skill of Fervor for agi

      Silencer - 30% extra spell damage on INT and gain back 10% max mana pool after each kill
      * A int killer and some mana recover and similar to bloodseeker after each kill gain back hp or Obsidian mana recover.
      For silencer we can use silence as well i. e . Int can not cast more tha  5 spells on him in a cycle then his Uniqueness will be 30% more magic damage on int and int cannot cast more than 5 spells in a cycle
      I believe giving him a source of extra mana is better, as most int problem is mana usage
      Hmmm may be ...


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 20, 2015, 02:41:42 PM
      i still believe Silencer can work better if get the spell efficiency on INT heroes.
      If not mistaken, frizzle rate (erm which I hope can one day get rid of) is base on self and enemy INT?


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 21, 2015, 01:37:23 AM
      i still believe Silencer can work better if get the spell efficiency on INT heroes.
      If not mistaken, frizzle rate (erm which I hope can one day get rid of) is base on self and enemy INT?
      Every own 30 int give reduce fizzle rate


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: torque on September 21, 2015, 01:19:55 PM
      Rework Aghanim's Scepter:

      New Requirements:
      Soul Booster + Ultimate Orb + Sange/Yasha/Eul's Scepter

      New Bonus Stats
      + 20% base hit pool and base mana pool
      + 10 to STRENGTH, AGILITY & INTELLIGENCE
      + 30 to main stat(bonus from Sange/Yasha/Eul's )
      Increase power of hero uniqueness


      AGILITY
      Stealth Assassin  - 4 bonus attack per 3 AGILITY pt
      Ursa Warrior - 12% bonus damage for each consecutive attack up to 60% max
      Anti-Mage - Mana burn based on 60/120/180% of attack damage & 45% spell resistance
      Shadow Fiend - 45/65/85% armor reduction against enemy
      Bloodseeker - 30% extra attack damage to target with less than 30% of hp pool and restore 80% of hp based on enemy's hp pool when killed
      Gorgon - 60% more armor effectiveness & regenerate 1 mana for every 3 attacking damage points

      ~ to be continued

      New Item Upgrades

      Prismatic Scepter
      components: Prismatic Pendant & Eul's Scepter
      gives: +55 Intelligence +10 Strength +10 Agility +2,000 mana regeneration +10% spell success rate

      Helion Hammer
      components: Sunprism Pendant & Sange
      gives: +55 Strength +10 Agility +10 Intelligence  +100 attack +8% health regen

      Aquatos Blade
      components: Pendant of Aquatic & Yasha
      gives: +55 Agility  +10 Strength  +10 Intelligence  +50 armor +10% armor effectiveness

      ~ not yet final. need tweaking to balance it out


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 21, 2015, 05:41:06 PM
      i still believe Silencer can work better if get the spell efficiency on INT heroes.
      If not mistaken, frizzle rate (erm which I hope can one day get rid of) is base on self and enemy INT?
      Every own 30 int give reduce fizzle rate

      that should be changed =/ i really don like the idea of STR non stop pumping STR while INT non stop pumping INT =/


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 21, 2015, 05:42:53 PM
      Rework Aghanim's Scepter:

      New Requirements:
      Soul Booster + Ultimate Orb + Sange/Yasha/Eul's Scepter

      New Bonus Stats
      + 20% base hit pool and base mana pool
      + 10 to STRENGTH, AGILITY & INTELLIGENCE
      + 30 to main stat(bonus from Sange/Yasha/Eul's )
      Increase power of hero uniqueness


      AGILITY
      Stealth Assassin  - 4 bonus attack per 3 AGILITY pt
      Ursa Warrior - 12% bonus damage for each consecutive attack up to 60% max
      Anti-Mage - Mana burn based on 60/120/180% of attack damage & 45% spell resistance
      Shadow Fiend - 45/65/85% armor reduction against enemy
      Bloodseeker - 30% extra attack damage to target with less than 30% of hp pool and restore 80% of hp based on enemy's hp pool when killed
      Gorgon - 60% more armor effectiveness & regenerate 1 mana for every 3 attacking damage points

      ~ to be continued

      New Item Upgrades

      Prismatic Scepter
      components: Prismatic Pendant & Eul's Scepter
      gives: +55 Intelligence +10 Strength +10 Agility +2,000 mana regeneration +10% spell success rate

      Helion Hammer
      components: Sunprism Pendant & Sange
      gives: +55 Strength +10 Agility +10 Intelligence  +100 attack +8% health regen

      Aquatos Blade
      components: Pendant of Aquatic & Yasha
      gives: +55 Agility  +10 Strength  +10 Intelligence  +50 armor +10% armor effectiveness

      ~ not yet final. need tweaking to balance it out

      base on uniqueness is too complex.
      while new items, why u hate STR so much =/ health regen seriously =/


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: torque on September 21, 2015, 11:12:55 PM
      Quote
      while new items, why u hate STR so much =/ health regen seriously =/

      Lol. I don't hate STR. Its my favorite class.  ;D

      As I said on my post, I still need to tweak them.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: killua on September 21, 2015, 11:23:02 PM
      Player   Assist
      scourge   C H I (#1832)     246
      scourge   Sigma (#2510)     165
      scourge   Multi1001 (#3901)     154
      sentinel   Slaughter (#1930)     137
      sentinel   ahlaingm (#2501)     80
      scourge   PSI (#1998)     74
      scourge   FUNeralbell (#2758)     68
      sentinel   BlAcKpiG (#2201)     64
      sentinel   Night Wings (#1027)     62
      sentinel   Nazgul (#3847)     61

      LOD should investigate if the assists above are genuine team play. Every round is like this. To think that it is just Fun Round. Who on earth will spend time doing this? LOL. LOD, please display the highest player who are being assisted with name of the assistant. This way we can monitor who is receiving assists from time to time.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: David on September 21, 2015, 11:28:34 PM
      Player   Assist
      scourge   C H I (#1832)     246
      scourge   Sigma (#2510)     165
      scourge   Multi1001 (#3901)     154
      sentinel   Slaughter (#1930)     137
      sentinel   ahlaingm (#2501)     80
      scourge   PSI (#1998)     74
      scourge   FUNeralbell (#2758)     68
      sentinel   BlAcKpiG (#2201)     64
      sentinel   Night Wings (#1027)     62
      sentinel   Nazgul (#3847)     61

      LOD should investigate if the assists above are genuine team play. Every round is like this. To think that it is just Fun Round. Who on earth will spend time doing this? LOL. LOD, please display the highest player who are being assisted with name of the assistant. This way we can monitor who is receiving assists from time to time.

      Should really investigate properly. Note their email and ban them next round  ;D


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: killua on September 21, 2015, 11:38:04 PM
      Player   Assist
      scourge   C H I (#1832)     246
      scourge   Sigma (#2510)     165
      scourge   Multi1001 (#3901)     154
      sentinel   Slaughter (#1930)     137
      sentinel   ahlaingm (#2501)     80
      scourge   PSI (#1998)     74
      scourge   FUNeralbell (#2758)     68
      sentinel   BlAcKpiG (#2201)     64
      sentinel   Night Wings (#1027)     62
      sentinel   Nazgul (#3847)     61

      LOD should investigate if the assists above are genuine team play. Every round is like this. To think that it is just Fun Round. Who on earth will spend time doing this? LOL. LOD, please display the highest player who are being assisted with name of the assistant. This way we can monitor who is receiving assists from time to time.

      Should really investigate properly. Note their email and ban them next round  ;D

      I wonder what's the best algorithm to automatically detect this. Maybe we need JARVIS to analyze the attack patterns of these guys.  ::)


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: McMasTeR on September 22, 2015, 12:56:16 AM
      Player   Assist
      scourge   C H I (#1832)     246
      scourge   Sigma (#2510)     165
      scourge   Multi1001 (#3901)     154
      sentinel   Slaughter (#1930)     137
      sentinel   ahlaingm (#2501)     80
      scourge   PSI (#1998)     74
      scourge   FUNeralbell (#2758)     68
      sentinel   BlAcKpiG (#2201)     64
      sentinel   Night Wings (#1027)     62
      sentinel   Nazgul (#3847)     61

      LOD should investigate if the assists above are genuine team play. Every round is like this. To think that it is just Fun Round. Who on earth will spend time doing this? LOL. LOD, please display the highest player who are being assisted with name of the assistant. This way we can monitor who is receiving assists from time to time.
      Dear LOD,

      Please check this id :  (#2291) ulquiorra or aka killua, a well know feeder account every round. Feeder account without fail.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 22, 2015, 10:56:12 AM
      banning wont really solve the issue. next rd new emails will be created for same purpose.
      the fundamental issue is the system itself does encourage multiplaying =/


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zHaKkAs on September 22, 2015, 11:09:06 PM
      banning wont really solve the issue. next rd new emails will be created for same purpose.
      the fundamental issue is the system itself does encourage multiplaying =/
      Yup agreed !!!!


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 25, 2015, 10:21:46 AM
      another thing i have suggested to LoD personally, i wonder u guys agree:
      REMOVE CLAN TROOPS SYSTEM.
      this thing is stopping new players IMO.
      for many rounds, I wish to play as solo as i dont feel want to get tied to a CLAN.
      but then, without a proper clan, i will lose a lot of GOLD COMPARED TO OTHERS who are in one.
      end up, i skipped the rounds. whats the point to play if I dont want a clan, and i will be so far behind in gold =/

      a CLAN should be fun, and supportive. and i think thats all it needs. GOLD from job and troops? i hope it get scrapped real soon.
      so that we will together see a NEED for a better clan system that enhance "Fun" and "Teamwork" elements.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: zHaKkAs on September 25, 2015, 01:38:29 PM
      another thing i have suggested to LoD personally, i wonder u guys agree:
      REMOVE CLAN TROOPS SYSTEM.
      this thing is stopping new players IMO.
      for many rounds, I wish to play as solo as i dont feel want to get tied to a CLAN.
      but then, without a proper clan, i will lose a lot of GOLD COMPARED TO OTHERS who are in one.
      end up, i skipped the rounds. whats the point to play if I dont want a clan, and i will be so far behind in gold =/

      a CLAN should be fun, and supportive. and i think thats all it needs. GOLD from job and troops? i hope it get scrapped real soon.
      so that we will together see a NEED for a better clan system that enhance "Fun" and "Teamwork" elements.
      I think clan is way in which different players from all the region of world join together and intract with each other. I still remember when I joined wd only 2 player were playing WD from my country and I didn't know anyone else and now only due to clan system I know so many of wd player from different countries. ...so removing it is not a nice idea...better continue this ..it's also nice to manage clan creeping I think lots of people like this...


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: D.Pro on September 25, 2015, 03:38:05 PM
      another thing i have suggested to LoD personally, i wonder u guys agree:
      REMOVE CLAN TROOPS SYSTEM.
      this thing is stopping new players IMO.
      for many rounds, I wish to play as solo as i dont feel want to get tied to a CLAN.
      but then, without a proper clan, i will lose a lot of GOLD COMPARED TO OTHERS who are in one.
      end up, i skipped the rounds. whats the point to play if I dont want a clan, and i will be so far behind in gold =/

      a CLAN should be fun, and supportive. and i think thats all it needs. GOLD from job and troops? i hope it get scrapped real soon.
      so that we will together see a NEED for a better clan system that enhance "Fun" and "Teamwork" elements.
      I think clan is way in which different players from all the region of world join together and intract with each other. I still remember when I joined wd only 2 player were playing WD from my country and I didn't know anyone else and now only due to clan system I know so many of wd player from different countries. ...so removing it is not a nice idea...better continue this ..it's also nice to manage clan creeping I think lots of people like this...

      Specially if you have max clan exploration ;)


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: tamtam on September 27, 2015, 12:48:20 AM
      Player   Assist
      scourge   C H I (#1832)     246
      scourge   Sigma (#2510)     165
      scourge   Multi1001 (#3901)     154
      sentinel   Slaughter (#1930)     137
      sentinel   ahlaingm (#2501)     80
      scourge   PSI (#1998)     74
      scourge   FUNeralbell (#2758)     68
      sentinel   BlAcKpiG (#2201)     64
      sentinel   Night Wings (#1027)     62
      sentinel   Nazgul (#3847)     61

      LOD should investigate if the assists above are genuine team play. Every round is like this. To think that it is just Fun Round. Who on earth will spend time doing this? LOL. LOD, please display the highest player who are being assisted with name of the assistant. This way we can monitor who is receiving assists from time to time.
      Dear LOD,

      Please check this id :  (#2291) ulquiorra or aka killua, a well know feeder account every round. Feeder account without fail.

      Well. I can be a witness that the multi1001 is a real account. :p


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: killua on September 27, 2015, 12:55:45 AM
      MKB > BUTTERFLY

      The only purpose of evasion for this round is to reduce the damage by 50% because of True Strike.
      50% sure damage for STR or AGI (at late game) is more than enough to kill AGI/INT heroes with naturally low HP.

      Even if we reduce the percentage sure damage, it's not applicable, because of the high damage output of STR heroes. We need to find an alternative for this.

      I suggest to change the logic of consecutive attacks. When we attack consecutively, only the successful events should be counted for damage calculation. We need to remove the chance of all attacks being evaded. This will improve heroes with related abilities such as Nerubian and Ursa Warrior.

      Additional Suggestion:

      1. Upon closing all the lanes, please add at least 1-hour Round Timer, where all attacks are still counted. The rank will still be updated after the clock. At least, it will add something new to the gameplay that we have every round. Most of the time, players are controlling the lanes. So if we will add this in the game, the other players will try to really end it and activate the ending timer.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: killua on September 28, 2015, 05:22:26 PM
      Dear LOD,
      Please check this id :  (#2291) ulquiorra or aka killua, a well know feeder account every round. Feeder account without fail.

      Is it? Our Kill/Death ratio is almost the same, for every 5 kills, yours is 5 deaths while mine is 6.  8)

      (#2253) zeta   
      Rank: 52 Stats: K: 313 D: 341 A: 18   

      VS

      (#2291) ulquiorra
      Rank: 60 Stats: K: 333 D: 411   A: 19

      If it's not fun round, our deaths will be lesser. The mere fact that we are just 2-3 turn food from STR and INTs if we are on the offensive mode.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on September 29, 2015, 07:42:47 PM
      another thing i have suggested to LoD personally, i wonder u guys agree:
      REMOVE CLAN TROOPS SYSTEM.
      this thing is stopping new players IMO.
      for many rounds, I wish to play as solo as i dont feel want to get tied to a CLAN.
      but then, without a proper clan, i will lose a lot of GOLD COMPARED TO OTHERS who are in one.
      end up, i skipped the rounds. whats the point to play if I dont want a clan, and i will be so far behind in gold =/

      a CLAN should be fun, and supportive. and i think thats all it needs. GOLD from job and troops? i hope it get scrapped real soon.
      so that we will together see a NEED for a better clan system that enhance "Fun" and "Teamwork" elements.
      I think clan is way in which different players from all the region of world join together and intract with each other. I still remember when I joined wd only 2 player were playing WD from my country and I didn't know anyone else and now only due to clan system I know so many of wd player from different countries. ...so removing it is not a nice idea...better continue this ..it's also nice to manage clan creeping I think lots of people like this...

      i DID NOT suggest to scrap "clan". i suggest to scrap the clan job and troops system.


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: Lazybone21 on October 05, 2015, 10:55:59 PM
      i think ur idea isnt good.U told that new players wont play cuz of clan r u insane.I think ur idea is killing the game.U are proposing ur trouble not for the game.Dont care about new come.Need to care old ppl and need to seduce retire players to come back this game  8)


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: StTomato on October 06, 2015, 10:29:26 AM
      i think ur idea isnt good.U told that new players wont play cuz of clan r u insane.I think ur idea is killing the game.U are proposing ur trouble not for the game.Dont care about new come.Need to care old ppl and need to seduce retire players to come back this game  8)

      i will leave immediately if this game isnt going to attract new comers. a game that stop growing is dying, pure fact.

      and, i am not playing this fun round becoz of clan. ask Dpro. =)
      i dont like joining a clan. i want a relaxing game, and solo suits me better.
      but solo = losing TONS of gold = lose others alot = whats the POINT to play? =/
      and... new players are mostly going to... SOLO for 1-2 rounds first.
      and they will get PISSED when lose like crap becoz no experience on this game, further losing hell lots of gold.
      i believe there arent much new player in this game. so i am prepared to leave this game again, anytime soon =)


      Title: Re: Next Round Possible Changes
      Post by: D.Pro on October 06, 2015, 10:25:26 PM
      i think ur idea isnt good.U told that new players wont play cuz of clan r u insane.I think ur idea is killing the game.U are proposing ur trouble not for the game.Dont care about new come.Need to care old ppl and need to seduce retire players to come back this game  8)

      i will leave immediately if this game isnt going to attract new comers. a game that stop growing is dying, pure fact.

      and, i am not playing this fun round becoz of clan. ask Dpro. =)
      i dont like joining a clan. i want a relaxing game, and solo suits me better.
      but solo = losing TONS of gold = lose others alot = whats the POINT to play? =/
      and... new players are mostly going to... SOLO for 1-2 rounds first.
      and they will get PISSED when lose like crap becoz no experience on this game, further losing hell lots of gold.
      i believe there arent much new player in this game. so i am prepared to leave this game again, anytime soon =)

      Solo was discontinued for very valid reasons   rounds back.. and yes it brought cons with it..   i have nothing against solo... just it shouldn't get abused like earlier over clan players


      And yes there are few new players a round before this fun round...