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Author Topic: HERO, ITEM, GAMEPLAY BALANCE SUGGESTIONS  (Read 14843 times)
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Reply #15 on: September 07, 2015, 09:06:16 AM

Incoherent brainwork HaTE... you can't  understand imbalance... just like what you did with 50%sunder which you still consider positive change
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Reply #16 on: September 07, 2015, 09:12:08 AM

   PHANTOM ASSASSIN
    
    PRIMARY: Agility
    STRENGTH: 22
    AGILITY: 17
    INTELLIGENCE: 15
    Uniqueness: Coup de Grace - 5/10/15% chance to do 2.5x Critical Strike with Terror.


i like using this hero in dota 2 and dota 1, but if you suggest this in WD with its uniqueness you've given....well you already know the results Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

no  he can't know the results... because his brain stopped working the day he started feeding with str
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shenron
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Reply #17 on: September 07, 2015, 12:22:29 PM

with or without terror, still imbalance, this hero has been suggested by the oldies, and still not implemented...besides, there's this item called BURIZA do KYANON  Kiss Kiss Kiss
Please tell me how it 'can' be imbalanced?
Yeah there's an item called Buriza and there is item called "Diffusal Blade" too but there's also an existing hero called "Anti-Mage" Cheesy. So you were saying  Kiss Kiss Kiss?

   MOGUL KHAN
    
    PRIMARY: Strength
    STRENGTH: 22
    AGILITY: 17
    INTELLIGENCE: 15
    Uniqueness: Culling Blade - Instantly kill an enemy if below 10/15/20% HP (ignores mana sheild) and 5/10/15% chance to return additional 20% Return Damage.

i like this suggestion, you can kill each and everyone in all region with 1 turn only with the abuse of assist  Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue
Maybe you should've read the HONOR SYSTEM change suggested before the "NEW HERO" section.
So take your time read that section, after reading that section, read the Uniqueness suggestion for "Mogul Khan (AXE)".. After reading both of these things, read your above quoted post. A-lot of reading to do for you Cheesy.

i agree on this one. even 50% DDR can be easily killed especially by strs if the target got low hp and no butterfly.
Thank you for the vote of confidence. I have played enough rounds and all I see is abusers / top rankers are killing low DRR (most of those low level / rank accounts are made just to get feeded on) over and over even with 50% DRR. Which completely ignores the whole idea behind "DRR" thing.

This will definitely discourage abuse of feeder accounts because whatever you think about the suggestion, the fact is, there are over 200 accounts are made per round and we don't even see that many online at once. Something's fishy.

do you think diffusal has the same amount of mana burn with anti mage uniqueness?
wanna know why they remove SK, FV, NA, SS? well i dont know also hahahaha Grin Grin Grin
before you suggest, why won't you read the [Sticky] Hero Suggestion of the elderly or the oldies.... Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue
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Reply #18 on: September 07, 2015, 01:05:18 PM

1. Butcher. ouch, the hook part is boring. and the STR/lvl is OP... what is underpowered doesnt mean u need to make it a sudden overpowered =/

2. Alchemist. too complicated, no.

3. Centaur. double edge is a good idea but not this way. no.

4. Anti Mage. complicated. just amend the number is enough.

5. Gorgon. boring. no.

6. Obsidian. scaling uniqueness is something i really dont like. no.

7. Ogre. a good idea. but dont need to go for 40% i believe. just start level 1 with 30% flat is a good buff to it.

8. Death Prophet. a flat 40% is good. % chance to trigger, NO.

9. Warlock. no, boring.

10. Fizzle. 60% refund is soooo much =/ no pls no...

11. New heroes, no need for the current meta. Fix the old one first...
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HaTE
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Reply #19 on: September 07, 2015, 02:28:41 PM

Incoherent brainwork HaTE... you can't  understand imbalance... just like what you did with 50%sunder which you still consider positive change
If I can't understand "imbalance" then it's a pity that you are not able to explain it either Cheesy. So your fault, not mine. Besides, what kind of a person who Quotes a "HUGE THREAD" just to post his "ONE" line knows about "imbalance"? Not to mention, "double posting" Cheesy? I'm intrigued.....NOT.

It 'is' a positive change. I wonder why you started crying all of the sudden when it required "Hard Fight" for INTs to compete with STRs for "This particular round". You want easy mode huh? Well then there are other games for you for #OTHERTIME Cheesy.

Maybe 50% is too much and STR class can exploit is but hell NO WAY you ever said that 15% sunder (which it has been for the past rounds) was too OP (which it was).

do you think diffusal has the same amount of mana burn with anti mage uniqueness?
wanna know why they remove SK, FV, NA, SS? well i dont know also hahahaha Grin Grin Grin
before you suggest, why won't you read the [Sticky] Hero Suggestion of the elderly or the oldies.... Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue
Of-course it doesn't have the same amount of mana burn. But if it had same amount, would you have agreed to remove Anti-Mage? Maybe you don't know that Anti-Mage's uniqueness value is actually bigger than Diffusal Blade's values.

For dummies you, I can make it easier (even then I won't be surprised if you didn't get the idea Cheesy. Fingers crossed though) Kiss.
  • Uniqueness of Anti-Mage got more mana burn than an existing item called "Diffusal Blade" (total item price 10,000 gold)
  • Uniqueness of Phantom Assassin got more critical than an existing item called "Buriza-do Kyanon" (total item price 10,000 gold)

Now look at above two statements again as:
  • Uniqueness of Anti-Mage got more mana burn than an existing item called "Diffusal Blade" (total item price 10,000 gold)
  • Uniqueness of Phantom Assassin got more critical than an existing item called "Buriza-do Kyanon" (total item price 10,000 gold)

Do you see the "similarities"  Kiss Kiss Kiss?

Also, what makes you think I haven't read everything before suggesting something? Also the fact that things NOW are way different than the things used to happen in previous rounds. Previously, operating multi accounts was not that easy. Today, there are so many devices (hell even you can play WebDota on your washing machine) that using multies has evolved and much more organized as compared to previous rounds. You've been around all that time, you should know that.

1. Butcher. ouch, the hook part is boring. and the STR/lvl is OP... what is underpowered doesnt mean u need to make it a sudden overpowered =/

2. Alchemist. too complicated, no.

3. Centaur. double edge is a good idea but not this way. no.

4. Anti Mage. complicated. just amend the number is enough.

5. Gorgon. boring. no.

6. Obsidian. scaling uniqueness is something i really dont like. no.

7. Ogre. a good idea. but dont need to go for 40% i believe. just start level 1 with 30% flat is a good buff to it.

8. Death Prophet. a flat 40% is good. % chance to trigger, NO.

9. Warlock. no, boring.

10. Fizzle. 60% refund is soooo much =/ no pls no...

11. New heroes, no need for the current meta. Fix the old one first...

Finally, some productive response.

1. Butcher: The idea is, hero that got less (or NO) popularity, should be brought back into play. Figures / values can be modified if hero is considered OP but the real deal here is to "provide" an idea. Hook part can be abused also, so that's why it is needed to be a high risk high reward ability. Still debatable.

2. Alchemist: Dude, CHEMISTRY "is" complicated and we're talking about Alchemist here. Come on. Plus I strongly believe the new uniqueness will bring Alchemist in the same tier as Panda / Naix / Tide / Huskar (i.e. already favorite picks for STR players). Worth a try? Don't you think?

3. Centaur: If not this way (which is actually the way how it is done in real DoTA) then which way? Open to discussion(s).

4. Anti-Mage: New uniqueness is not taking away from him anything, nor giving him more buff. It 'is' an amendment in his existing numbers. Have another look please.

5. Gorgon: More boring than NOT PICKING THIS Hero at all? I don't think so Cheesy.

6. Obsidian: I got your point. But fixed numbers draw the line between favorite pick and least pick hero. I'm just trying (humbly) to bring % based uniqueness to same level with Ogre Magi and Death Prophet.

7. Ogre magi: As explained in above point # 6.

8. Death Prophet: As explain in above point # 6.

9. Warlock: Yes you are right. I'm still thinking about ways to make this hero more interesting (without making him imbalanced).

10. Fizzle: Again, my try is to pitch an idea. Numbers can be changed / modified at any time after seeing the "actual" result. If not 60%, then maybe 50%? Or 40%? All these numbers can be tried one by one for further analysis. The keyword here is "pitching" an idea, not enforcing it.

11. New Heroes: I strongly agree. But it's about time we have seen new faces in the hero select screen. When was the last hero (I think Huskar) released? Remember? Yeah that's what I thought.

Thanks again for the positive discussion as compared to random baloney by other two individuals Cheesy.
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Reply #20 on: September 07, 2015, 02:58:50 PM

sorry i cant read it with strikethrough and lesser font size

don't hate me hate

 Cry Cry Cry Cry
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Reply #21 on: September 07, 2015, 03:01:48 PM

but i like your washing machine, where can i buy those? hahahaha
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HaTE
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Reply #22 on: September 07, 2015, 04:02:04 PM

The strike through and small font text is same text as:
Quote
  • Uniqueness of Anti-Mage got more mana burn than an existing item called "Diffusal Blade" (total item price 10,000 gold)
  • Uniqueness of Phantom Assassin got more critical than an existing item called "Buriza-do Kyanon" (total item price 10,000 gold)
I made the words in the "same" lines smaller and strike through to help you ignore them. But as expected, you don't have any clue Cheesy.

About washing machine, I'll let you know when you're done making sandwiches in the Kitchen Kiss Kiss.


**Updated OP (Original Post) adding EXPERIENCE GAIN ON HEALING in the Game Play Changes Section**
Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 05:02:17 PM by HaTE Logged

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Reply #23 on: September 07, 2015, 06:13:55 PM

Incoherent brainwork HaTE... you can't  understand imbalance... just like what you did with 50%sunder which you still consider positive change
If I can't understand "imbalance" then it's a pity that you are not able to explain it either Cheesy. So your fault, not mine. Besides, what kind of a person who Quotes a "HUGE THREAD" just to post his "ONE" line knows about "imbalance"? Not to mention, "double posting" Cheesy? I'm intrigued.....NOT.

It 'is' a positive change. I wonder why you started crying all of the sudden when it required "Hard Fight" for INTs to compete with STRs for "This particular round". You want easy mode huh? Well then there are other games for you for #OTHERTIME Cheesy.

Maybe 50% is too much and STR class can exploit is but hell NO WAY you ever said that 15% sunder (which it has been for the past rounds) was too OP (which it was).

do you think diffusal has the same amount of mana burn with anti mage uniqueness?
wanna know why they remove SK, FV, NA, SS? well i dont know also hahahaha Grin Grin Grin
before you suggest, why won't you read the [Sticky] Hero Suggestion of the elderly or the oldies.... Tongue Tongue Tongue Tongue
Of-course it doesn't have the same amount of mana burn. But if it had same amount, would you have agreed to remove Anti-Mage? Maybe you don't know that Anti-Mage's uniqueness value is actually bigger than Diffusal Blade's values.

For dummies you, I can make it easier (even then I won't be surprised if you didn't get the idea Cheesy. Fingers crossed though) Kiss.
  • Uniqueness of Anti-Mage got more mana burn than an existing item called "Diffusal Blade" (total item price 10,000 gold)
  • Uniqueness of Phantom Assassin got more critical than an existing item called "Buriza-do Kyanon" (total item price 10,000 gold)

Now look at above two statements again as:
  • Uniqueness of Anti-Mage got more mana burn than an existing item called "Diffusal Blade" (total item price 10,000 gold)
  • Uniqueness of Phantom Assassin got more critical than an existing item called "Buriza-do Kyanon" (total item price 10,000 gold)

Do you see the "similarities"  Kiss Kiss Kiss?

Also, what makes you think I haven't read everything before suggesting something? Also the fact that things NOW are way different than the things used to happen in previous rounds. Previously, operating multi accounts was not that easy. Today, there are so many devices (hell even you can play WebDota on your washing machine) that using multies has evolved and much more organized as compared to previous rounds. You've been around all that time, you should know that.

1. Butcher. ouch, the hook part is boring. and the STR/lvl is OP... what is underpowered doesnt mean u need to make it a sudden overpowered =/

2. Alchemist. too complicated, no.

3. Centaur. double edge is a good idea but not this way. no.

4. Anti Mage. complicated. just amend the number is enough.

5. Gorgon. boring. no.

6. Obsidian. scaling uniqueness is something i really dont like. no.

7. Ogre. a good idea. but dont need to go for 40% i believe. just start level 1 with 30% flat is a good buff to it.

8. Death Prophet. a flat 40% is good. % chance to trigger, NO.

9. Warlock. no, boring.

10. Fizzle. 60% refund is soooo much =/ no pls no...

11. New heroes, no need for the current meta. Fix the old one first...

Finally, some productive response.

1. Butcher: The idea is, hero that got less (or NO) popularity, should be brought back into play. Figures / values can be modified if hero is considered OP but the real deal here is to "provide" an idea. Hook part can be abused also, so that's why it is needed to be a high risk high reward ability. Still debatable.

2. Alchemist: Dude, CHEMISTRY "is" complicated and we're talking about Alchemist here. Come on. Plus I strongly believe the new uniqueness will bring Alchemist in the same tier as Panda / Naix / Tide / Huskar (i.e. already favorite picks for STR players). Worth a try? Don't you think?

3. Centaur: If not this way (which is actually the way how it is done in real DoTA) then which way? Open to discussion(s).

4. Anti-Mage: New uniqueness is not taking away from him anything, nor giving him more buff. It 'is' an amendment in his existing numbers. Have another look please.

5. Gorgon: More boring than NOT PICKING THIS Hero at all? I don't think so Cheesy.

6. Obsidian: I got your point. But fixed numbers draw the line between favorite pick and least pick hero. I'm just trying (humbly) to bring % based uniqueness to same level with Ogre Magi and Death Prophet.

7. Ogre magi: As explained in above point # 6.

8. Death Prophet: As explain in above point # 6.

9. Warlock: Yes you are right. I'm still thinking about ways to make this hero more interesting (without making him imbalanced).

10. Fizzle: Again, my try is to pitch an idea. Numbers can be changed / modified at any time after seeing the "actual" result. If not 60%, then maybe 50%? Or 40%? All these numbers can be tried one by one for further analysis. The keyword here is "pitching" an idea, not enforcing it.

11. New Heroes: I strongly agree. But it's about time we have seen new faces in the hero select screen. When was the last hero (I think Huskar) released? Remember? Yeah that's what I thought.

Thanks again for the positive discussion as compared to random baloney by other two individuals Cheesy.

How can i explain to a stupid player who doesn't even understand the basic gameplay of webdota
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HaTE
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Reply #24 on: September 07, 2015, 06:22:55 PM

How can i explain to a stupid player who doesn't even understand the basic gameplay of webdota
So you're admitting that you lack the ability to understand the basic of "explaining" yourself Cheesy? Oh my  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes!!!! Wouldn't you like to tell me the basics of WebDota gamplay #OtherTime  Grin Grin?
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Reply #25 on: September 07, 2015, 06:27:06 PM

Hi master HATE, i just wanna ask if the honor system you are talking about is the same with the ranking point system used by the game? Because if yes, i really agree with your idea :-) i hope LOD will add assisted kill in ranking criteria which is lower point than solo kill so that no matter how many assisted kills a player has, solo kill is still worth more than that :-)
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Reply #26 on: September 07, 2015, 06:28:03 PM

How can i explain to a stupid player who doesn't even understand the basic gameplay of webdota
So you're admitting that you lack the ability to understand the basic of "explaining" yourself Cheesy? Oh my  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes!!!! Wouldn't you like to tell me the basics of WebDota gamplay #OtherTime  Grin Grin?

No... i am tired of explaining myself  to an idiot.
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HaTE
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Reply #27 on: September 07, 2015, 07:13:04 PM

Hi master HATE, i just wanna ask if the honor system you are talking about is the same with the ranking point system used by the game? Because if yes, i really agree with your idea :-) i hope LOD will add assisted kill in ranking criteria which is lower point than solo kill so that no matter how many assisted kills a player has, solo kill is still worth more than that :-)
Yes bro, the proposed HONOR SYSTEM = Ranking System (i.e. ranking should be based on HONOR points and not just kills). This is the BEST proposal to:
1 - Discourage use of multies
2 - Encourage PvP (instead of Pv*self created feeder account*)
3 - Prevent abuse of last hitting.

No... i am tired of explaining myself  to an idiot.
So basically you got tired before even trying anything Grin Grin. Such basics Grin.
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Reply #28 on: September 08, 2015, 07:08:25 PM

**Added IMPORTANT STEP TO REDUCE MULTIES in Game Play Changes section**
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Reply #29 on: September 08, 2015, 09:29:54 PM

Quote from: HaTE
IMPORTANT STEP TO REDUCE MULTIES: - Let's admit that is no stopping for Multies. That's why instead of using the word "Prevent" multies, I have used "reduce". I suggest that all the newly created accounts should start at "Fountain" and players are able to move their heroes just before 2 hours of round start. Reason behind this change is that feeder accounts are created way before round starts and are left idle in the center lane. Later the "creator" of those feeder accounts kills such accounts and takes benefit. By having players to move their "Hero" from fountain to any other lane 2 hours before round start will force the creator(s) of feeder / multi accounts to log in and move such accounts. Then they will also log in their "main" account. This way, their IP / location trace will be easier to match / analyze. This is not a permanent solution but it will narrow down the amount of multies created. I actually came up with this idea by searching the forum (same idea was used in some Fun Round years ago). Plus, all heroes start from Fountain in read DoTA too Wink.


Multies on level 1 aren't the big problem. Multies that reach at level 4 to 6 are the one that needs to be taken care of. Besides im a big NO to 2 hours before round starts, because even I do not login until I know i can purchase the items i need. Also not everyone can Login 2 hours before round starts. Think about people that have classes, Works or other activities that prevent them to login. This could create a big impact to other players, "Ohh i cant login for 10 - 12 hours before round starts because I have a school trip" and so on with the excuses. 10 hours in fountain is really a huge impact to game play.

One thing i can think of to detecting multies are the force login using facebook account. This way LOD can see if those are multies or real with the help of facebook.
I guess around 90% players here use facebook or I might be wrong, maybe we "all" use facebook.

With facebook login, LOD can check the date creation of the Facebook account, was it created 2 hours ago? was it created 10yrs ago?
With facebook how real is the account? Does it have friends? Does it contains personal records?
With facebook of course our "MAIN" account is linked to our "MAIN" Facebook account. So its really easy to see a legit player.
Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 09:40:04 PM by -19- Logged

                
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