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Author Topic: Round 62F - Changes & Discussion  (Read 38541 times)
Lord of Dota
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on: September 07, 2015, 02:05:35 PM

Hero
  • Obsidian Destroyer - Every spell casting has 20/30/40% chance to restore 10% of maximum mana pool
  • Ogre Magi - 10/20/30% chance for multi cast
  • Anti Mage - Mana burn based on 50/100/150% of attack damage & 40% spell resistance
  • Alchemist - 40% (from 35%) extra damage on creeping and chemical raged (lasts for 120 minutes instead of 45 minutes) when a creep is killed

Magic
  • Terror will not work against Agility heroes and zero return damage will now work on consecutive attacks
  • Terror mana cost increased from 200 to 400
  • Sunder and Sunder Health leave 45% minumum HP instead of 50%

Creep
  • Gold sharing from creep kill decreased from 50% to 20%

Item
  • Black King Bar - 20% chance to block spell and no mana needed, instead of 35% with 100 mana
  • Feedback Orb - Mana burn based on 250% of attack damage instead of 150%
  • Euls Scepter of Divinity - 500 Mana regen per cycle instead of 100 Mana regen
  • Euls Scepter of Divinity - recipe cost from 1300 to 3300
  • Demon Edge - from + 36 attack to + 48 attack
  • Demon Edge - cost from 1800 to 2700
  • Buriza-do Kyanon - from + 80 attack to + 100 attack
  • Divine Rapier - from + 175 attack to + 200 attack
  • New item: Javelin, cost 1500, + 30 attack
  • New item: Monkey King Bar (1 x Javelin, 1 x Demon Edge, 1 x recipe), + 80 attack with True Strike, not stackable, recipe cost 2000

Item popularity excluding portion
Code:
Demon Edge 415
Ironwood Branch 348
Ogre Axe 309
Belt of Giant Strength 261
Boots of Elvenskin 260
Mithril Hammer 231
Blade of Alacrity 230
Robe of the Magi 221
Sacred Relic 208
Broadsword 205
Blades of Attack 205
Claymore 197
Crystalys 191
Talisman of Evasion 186
Yasha 184
Sange 179
Eaglehorn 177
Divine Rapier 175
Buriza-do Kyanon 174
Quarterstaff 152
Staff of Wizardry 137
The Butterfly 134
Planeswalkers Cloak 121
Euls Scepter of Divinity 121
Sange and Yasha 120
Black King Bar 117
Plate Mail 108
Vitality Booster 90
Chain Mail 85
Ring of Health 64
Messerschmidts Reaver 62
Helm of Iron Will 52
Heart of Tarrasque 52
Aegis of the Immortal 49
Slippers of Agility 49
Circlet of Nobility 45
Mystic Staff 45
Hood of Defiance 39
Gauntlets of Ogre Strength 39
Point Booster 38
Void Stone 37
Cranium Basher 33
Energy Booster 32
Diffusal Blade 32
Sobi Mask 30
Soul Booster 29
Mjollnir 25
Witching Stave 24
Ring of Protection 22
Ring of Basilius 22
Perseverance 20
Gloves of Haste 18
Bloodstone 15
Mantle of Intelligence 13
Hand of Midas 12
Shiva's Guard 11

Below 10:
Aghanim's Scepter, Null Talisman, Stygian Desolator, Bracer, Wraith Band, Blade Mail, Mask of Death, Ring of Regeneration

Misc
  • Add Assist in Player Card
  • Show Assisted Kill for top kill list
  • DRR will be activated when there is assist
  • Fixed DRR bug not showing 0% in enemy list when there is zero kill
  • Fixed Butcher and Silencer streak bonus only happens at 9th streak kills
  • Fixed Pandaren uniqueness not working in consecutive attacks

True Strike: 50% attack damage cannot be missed. For example, a total of 100 attack damage points, enemy can only evades 50 points out of it (when the miss/evasion is triggered).

Next round is un-audited Fun Round, there will be daily Side shuffle includes clan-less players. Expect the round will be longer as lane HP will be doubled. Official round 63 will be arranged on Oct.
Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 07:38:19 PM by Lord of Dota Logged

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Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 02:18:21 PM

Hero
  • Obsidian Destroyer
  • Warlock
  • Alchemist

Magic
  • Terror will not work against Agility heroes and no return damage will now work on consecutive attacks

Item
  • Black King Bar - 25% chance to block spell and no mana needed

Item popularity excluding portion
Code:
Demon Edge 415
Ironwood Branch 348
Ogre Axe 309
Belt of Giant Strength 261
Boots of Elvenskin 260
Mithril Hammer 231
Blade of Alacrity 230
Robe of the Magi 221
Sacred Relic 208
Broadsword 205
Blades of Attack 205
Claymore 197
Crystalys 191
Talisman of Evasion 186
Yasha 184
Sange 179
Eaglehorn 177
Divine Rapier 175
Buriza-do Kyanon 174
Quarterstaff 152
Staff of Wizardry 137
The Butterfly 134
Planeswalkers Cloak 121
Euls Scepter of Divinity 121
Sange and Yasha 120
Black King Bar 117
Plate Mail 108
Vitality Booster 90
Chain Mail 85
Ring of Health 64
Messerschmidts Reaver 62
Helm of Iron Will 52
Heart of Tarrasque 52
Aegis of the Immortal 49
Slippers of Agility 49
Circlet of Nobility 45
Mystic Staff 45
Hood of Defiance 39
Gauntlets of Ogre Strength 39
Point Booster 38
Void Stone 37
Cranium Basher 33
Energy Booster 32
Diffusal Blade 32
Sobi Mask 30
Soul Booster 29
Mjollnir 25
Witching Stave 24
Ring of Protection 22
Ring of Basilius 22
Perseverance 20
Gloves of Haste 18
Bloodstone 15
Mantle of Intelligence 13
Hand of Midas 12
Shiva's Guard 11

Below 10:
Aghanim's Scepter, Null Talisman, Stygian Desolator, Bracer, Wraith Band, Blade Mail, Mask of Death, Ring of Regeneration

Misc
  • DRR will be activated when there is assist
  • Fixed DRR bug not showing 0% in enemy list when there is zero kill
  • Fixed Butcher and Silencer streak bonus only happens at 9th streak kills
  • Fixed Pandaren uniqueness not working in consecutive attacks
Making BKB mana free is not a good idea.
As mana regn and fizzle sucks in Int and also when int is of full mana taking aN example of lvl 4 Int has 10,000 mana and he can cast at max 11 Death coils when there is no fizzle which is not possible in current system . Taking 20% DC as fizzle then int left with 9 death coils and out of which if 3-4 DC got blocked by bkb then he will left with 5-6 DC only so he hardly can kill STR ..
So if you are thinking of making bkb mana free then make mana regn for int 40% and no more fizzle of spells...Thanks

And ya kindly change warlock and Alchemist .
Obsidian  is good and I don't think he need a change instead kindly change SA because I feel he has been nerfed alot ...
Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 02:22:11 PM by zHaKkAs Logged

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Reply #2 on: September 07, 2015, 02:20:13 PM

If these changes r confirmed , I won't play int any more
So sad for int  Huh Huh
Most ppl will try agi  Cheesy Cheesy
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Reply #3 on: September 07, 2015, 02:46:36 PM

Hold on to your panties people. LOD said:
Quote
Next round is un-audited Fun Round, there will be daily Side shuffle includes clan-less players. Official round 63 will be arranged on Oct.
I strongly welcome the BKB change. Now it's on same level with Butterfly.

And YES Obsidian's change (if it is what I think it is) is needed to bring him to the same tier / level as Ogre Magi and Death Prophet.

Please LOD, can you explain what changes in OD, Warlock and Alchemist we're going to see?

Also, kindly:
  • Give Ogre Magi MultiCast on healing since he is unable to use his uniqueness (unlike other INT heroes) for Reaper Scythe.
  • Give Fizzled spells are refund. 60% on the same fizzle rates as previous round or improve the fizzle rate (i.e. it should fizzle less as you level up) and fizzle refund mana value to 50%. Also, since BKB need 0 mana to block spells next round, it makes more sense if Fizzled spells start refunding mana.

I mean this is a "Testing" round so why not try above mentioned changes? Also there are few notable changes mentioned here ( http://forum.dotahomer.com/index.php?topic=4262.0 )
Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 03:56:19 PM by HaTE Logged

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Reply #4 on: September 07, 2015, 02:53:46 PM

  • Terror will not work against Agility heroes and no return damage will now work on consecutive attacks

Hi LOD,

Decreasing the mana of Terror by from 500 to 200 makes the AGI heroes killing themselves.
Now, we are solving it by making Terror only works definitely against INT  types? This is totally not good at all.

We need to come up a better balancing solution. Right now, we can't kill both STR and INT with huge HP and Mana even with late game items. Agi heroes are time bound. They cannot compete well because of time controlled laning system. Before we have our items, lanes are already about to close. And we cannot approximate how much effort we need because of the possibility of all lanes being closed already. If it's fixed, then we can plan ahead how to build our heroes.

The only hero type that AGI can kill is AGI as well. Terror is fine as long as the mana requirement is average (400-500). So that we cannot spam it against AGI. If this spell will no longer work against AGI, it's more totally imbalance. We cannot kill all types of heroes already!

STR heroes can kill all types.
INT heroes can do the same.
AGI is totally left behind!
Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 04:00:56 PM by killua Logged

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Reply #5 on: September 07, 2015, 02:57:57 PM

So is the new terror totally meant for intl? Will consecutive attack with terror work? How about SF? Can reduce agi's armor? Any plan to weak str hero? I'd like to see agi with niax uniqueness  Grin
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Reply #6 on: September 07, 2015, 03:11:45 PM

Please check the ranking data here - > http://forum.dotahomer.com/index.php?topic=4219.msg80530#msg80530 Smiley

Fun round! Wohoooo!!
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Reply #7 on: September 07, 2015, 04:10:20 PM

I have a fun idea for Terror:
  • Terror on INT: 3/6/10% Damage increased on hit based on enemy's "CURRENT" mana (note, I mentioned MANA not INT).
  • Terror on STR: 3/6/10% Damage increased on hit based on enemy's "CURRENT" HP (note, I mentioned HP not STR).
  • Terror on AGI: no effect. OR 5/10/15% Armor Reduction on hit

Notes:
- Above colored values can be changed because AGIs have hell lots of turns but then again, they don't have that much mana (which they can increase if they want to Cheesy).
- Above terror changes will make AGI viable late game when INTs have hell lot of mana and STRs have hell lot of hp.
- Idea behind above terror changes is to boost AGI class to compete with already strong STR and already STRONGER INT classes.


*EDIT* Changed the Terror on AGI section*.
Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 04:22:30 PM by HaTE Logged

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Reply #8 on: September 07, 2015, 04:13:38 PM

  • Terror will not work against Agility heroes and no return damage will now work on consecutive attacks

Hi LOD,

Decreasing the mana of Terror by from 500 to 200 makes the AGI heroes killing themselves.
Now, we are solving it by making Terror only works definitely against INT  types? This is totally not good at all.

We need to come up a better balancing solution. Right now, we can't kill both STR and INT with huge HP and Mana even with late game items. Agi heroes are time bound. They cannot compete well because of time controlled laning system. Before we have our items, lanes are already about to close. And we cannot approximate how much effort we need because of the possibility of all lanes being closed already. If it's fixed, then we can plan ahead how to build our heroes.

The only hero type that AGI can kill is AGI as well. Terror is fine as long as the mana requirement is average (400-500). So that we cannot spam it against AGI. If this spell will no longer work against AGI, it's more totally imbalance. We cannot kill all types of heroes already!

STR heroes can kill all types.
INT heroes can do the same.
AGI is totally left behind!

OD will likely to be implemented tier level uniqueness as suggested here.

The feedback I received from here, is that, we try, try not to nerf any class but improve the weak side.

I have some questions for the floor,

  • If everyone agree that STR and INT can kill all types, what kind of improvement would you see toward a Class (Agility), not specified hero?
  • Agility heroes have better item efficiency at early start, 20% magic resistance by nature and faster turns, if AGI cannot kill, can they die easily?

Sometimes I feel bad that seems like I have made Agility heroes the man behind or a must have hero in Clan build.
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Reply #9 on: September 07, 2015, 04:16:01 PM

LOD i think Terror not working with AGI is kinda OP, atleast give it percentage effectiveness per level 100% / 90% / 80% / 70% and 60%. with 60 CAP since Armor on Agi are higher compared to INT and STR.
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Reply #10 on: September 07, 2015, 04:20:45 PM

    I have some questions for the floor,

    • If everyone agree that STR and INT can kill all types, what kind of improvement would you see toward a Class (Agility), not specified hero?
    • Agility heroes have better item efficiency at early start, 20% magic resistance by nature and faster turns, if AGI cannot kill, can they die easily?

    Sometimes I feel bad that seems like I have made Agility heroes the man behind or a must have hero in Clan build.


    Does this reply your questions?
    I have a fun idea for Terror:
    • Terror on INT: 3/6/10% Damage increased on hit based on enemy's "CURRENT" mana (note, I mentioned MANA not INT).
    • Terror on STR: 3/6/10% Damage increased on hit based on enemy's "CURRENT" HP (note, I mentioned HP not STR).
    • Terror on AGI: no effect.**EDIT** OR AGI vs AGI with Terror can ignore 5/10/15%
    Armor[/list]

    Notes:
    - Above colored values can be changed because AGIs have hell lots of turns but then again, they don't have that much mana (which they can increase if they want to Cheesy).
    - Above terror changes will make AGI viable late game when INTs have hell lot of mana and STRs have hell lot of hp.
    - Idea behind above terror changes is to boost AGI class to compete with already strong STR and already STRONGER INT classes.

    Oh and while we're showing some love to AGI class, I want to propose a change that I suggested LONG LONG LONG time ago:
    i.e. Make the DR drop-able ONLY after at-least 5 kills. It hurts so bad when players make DR only to find out that before using the ITEM, it was dropped on first death.
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    Reply #11 on: September 07, 2015, 04:29:00 PM

    Im more interested on these: (removed non-recipe item from list)

    Yasha   184   (NOTE 1)
    Sange   179   (NOTE 1)
    Divine Rapier   175   (NOTE 2)
    Buriza-do Kyanon   174   (NOTE 2)
    The Butterfly   134  (NOTE 3)
    Euls Scepter of Divinity   121  (NOTE 1)
    Sange and Yasha   120  (NOTE 1)
    Black King Bar   117  (NOTE 3)
    Heart of Tarrasque   52  
    Aegis of the Immortal   49
    Hood of Defiance   39  (NOTE 4)
    Cranium Basher   33
    Diffusal Blade   32
    Soul Booster   29
    Mjollnir   25
    Witching Stave   24
    Ring of Basilius   22
    Perseverance   20
    Bloodstone   15
    Hand of Midas   12
    Shiva's Guard   11
    Aghanim's Scepter   <10  (NOTE 5)
    Null Talisman  <10  (NOTE 1)
    Stygian Desolator  <10  (NOTE 6)
    Bracer  <10  (NOTE 1)
    Wraith Band  <10  (NOTE 1)
    Blade Mail  <10  (NOTE 7)

    Note 1: Massive usage of SnY and poor usage of basic items. As I suggested,
    Bracer, Band, Null, should have their recipe @ 1000g but the stat they give should be better @ 12 main 3 subs
    This shall improve usage of the 3 basic items at beginning

    Note 2: AGI are lack of choices I bet. DR and Burize are their choices. Which I have called for a buff on other ATTACK items, to help AGI.

    Note 3: Butterfly and BKB, heavy usage. I cant tell you how important it is, to make evasion max @20%, while BKB trigger at 20%. I cant, if you dont try it. I know everyone will yell for NO NO NO NO NO NO NO x 100 times. I hate it when LOL REMOVED dodge % from their game entirely. But it ends up to be the right move. When you attack, you want to have a % chance on crit, which is already LUCK based, and yet you need another LUCK for enemy not to DODGE it. Too much luck... Same goes for spells and BKB. Spell damage should be reworked, I am serious about this.

    Note 4: This, I wasnt expecting. Wow, so few player uses HoD, no wonder INT has their spells fly around like mad =/ I reduced my death a lot this round when I get 2 HoD... Which, I think should NOT be happening. Stacking magic resistance like that and avoided a lot of death, I really cant tell you how broken it is. Still, you people will yell NO on it. Sometime I just want to quit this forum and game for good.

    Note 5: I really love the idea someone suggested Aghanim to be reworked, making it usable for all 3 classes. Using the Ogre Axe those items, and merge with Point Booster, just like the new Dota, improve all 3 classes abilities. This is too good to be missed out. But I am dont agree with that person's suggestion on the effects.

    Note 6: Who need Deso when AGI can have 200 mana Terror? XD saw this coming!

    Note 7: Oh well, LoD must save Blademail lol. Its so pity xD
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    Reply #12 on: September 07, 2015, 04:29:14 PM


    Agility heroes have better item efficiency at early start, 20% magic resistance by nature and faster turns, if AGI cannot kill, can they die easily?



    The item efficiency are no longer there because of the FORCE sharing of gold creeps. For start Agi need to pump Damage in order to Level fast and kill fast.
    Compared to INT and STR they buy stuffs that are beneficial to both Offense and defense.

    STR pump STR items for enrage which gives them more HP for survival
    INT pump INT for Higher Magic damage and the same time giving them more Mana shield Blockage and Higher Heal
    While AGI pump Damage, Just Damage and even have the Chance to Drop (Divine Rapier) which will just waste more GOLD.

    If force sharing is now disable then AGI will have the benefits of items since AGI can now purchase more item for their offense and defense items.
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    Reply #13 on: September 07, 2015, 04:30:28 PM

    LOD i think Terror not working with AGI is kinda OP, atleast give it percentage effectiveness per level 100% / 90% / 80% / 70% and 60%. with 60 CAP since Armor on Agi are higher compared to INT and STR.

    said this before, Terror will 200 mana should NOT be doing 100% armor reduction. It should be a lower %, and this shall increase the need for Deso. but no one give a fxxk about what I say anyway =P
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    Reply #14 on: September 07, 2015, 04:31:09 PM

      I have some questions for the floor,

      • If everyone agree that STR and INT can kill all types, what kind of improvement would you see toward a Class (Agility), not specified hero?
      • Agility heroes have better item efficiency at early start, 20% magic resistance by nature and faster turns, if AGI cannot kill, can they die easily?

      Sometimes I feel bad that seems like I have made Agility heroes the man behind or a must have hero in Clan build.


      Does this reply your questions?
      I have a fun idea for Terror:
      • Terror on INT: 3/6/10% Damage increased on hit based on enemy's "CURRENT" mana (note, I mentioned MANA not INT).
      • Terror on STR: 3/6/10% Damage increased on hit based on enemy's "CURRENT" HP (note, I mentioned HP not STR).
      • Terror on AGI: no effect.**EDIT** OR AGI vs AGI with Terror can ignore 5/10/15%
      Armor[/list]

      Notes:
      - Above colored values can be changed because AGIs have hell lots of turns but then again, they don't have that much mana (which they can increase if they want to Cheesy).
      - Above terror changes will make AGI viable late game when INTs have hell lot of mana and STRs have hell lot of hp.
      - Idea behind above terror changes is to boost AGI class to compete with already strong STR and already STRONGER INT classes.

      Oh and while we're showing some love to AGI class, I want to propose a change that I suggested LONG LONG LONG time ago:
      i.e. Make the DR drop-able ONLY after at-least 5 kills. It hurts so bad when players make DR only to find out that before using the ITEM, it was dropped on first death.

      to hell DR. remove that shit lol~
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